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New H3D

Of course it was possible, save for the autofocus stuff the Zeiss lenses for the V series at least do not have. But I'm sure Zeiss could have gotten that sorted as well if required.

This was not a technical but some kind of marketing / commercial decision.

These, as I found out in my own work, have often very little to do with logic.

Wilko
 
Never underestimate the reliability of a simple, ancient invention like a roll film. There is just so little that can go wrong with that compared to the electronic gizmo's of today.

That said, this story about the digibacks basically shows unacceptable quality problems. Fullstop.

Wilko (a BSEE who happens to work with high-tech electronic gizmo's every day)
 
The profit margins would be higher on the Fuji lenses. Also, it's not that I think the Fuji lenses are bad - but nobody attained the combination of resolution and microcontrast that Zeiss did. Hasselblad would not have achieved its former reputation on their bodies alone.
 
Marc, I did take your point - but to be truthful, I actually like square prints, so my first preference would be 54x54mm! I know - I can't have it.
 
There is just so little that can go wrong with that

Now who do you think you are kidding?

I'll summarize:

- Simple handling errors, such as loading it backwards or doing it in a way that leads to spacing problems
- Fogging
- Heat damage
- Other environmental damage
- Mechanical fogging
- Ageing effects
- Film speed mix-ups
- Emulsion defects, such as bubbles
- Unmatched emulsions/c.q. colour matching problems
- Chemical fogging
- Many, many "processing effects" each of which you could write an academic thesis about
- Loading the wrong type
- Colour rendition defects
- Non-reciprocity

And the list could go on, and on, and on.
There are many stages along the way from factory to finished print at which this reliable film can go horribly wrong.
And it doesn't stop after processing and printing. For instance, how are those slides and colour negs, and colour prints you, or you parents, made some 30 odd years ago doing today?

The Digido is often hyped beyond believe. But pardon me Wilko, this statement about film ranks among the worst of the worst.
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Bojan,

Xpan was a Hasselblad concept and basic design. Fuji had the ability to take concept etc to the finished product. My guess is the same for the H series and/or that both parties were happy with the Xpan experience.

This is Zeiss' take on it:

'Why is the new Hasselblad H 1 camera system not equipped with Carl Zeiss lenses?
For this special project Hasselblad needed a partner with a broader capacity than lens design and manufacturing and had to turn to Fuji for that reason.'

Maybe it was also cost, maybe not.

Also, it isn't correct that Fuji lenses at this level are 'run of the mill'. I haven't used an H series camera, but seen pictures of great sharpness (and digital 'perfection'), but have an a TX-1, the Fuji badged Xpan.

The Fuji lenses aren't average. They might be a bit different and Zeiss could have made a little jewel like the Xpan 45mm, but didn't.

I am curious as to why Fuji would stick with their name in Japan if it was really rubbish... Surely they would want to dress the mutton of Fuji up as the lamb of Hasselblad. Perhaps it WAS for prestige, but given the Fuji films, the high end MF cameras, etc etc, my guess is that it is that the 'Fuji' name is good in Japan.

The name didn't make any difference to me...all it meant was getting a camera whose finish stands up better than the Hasselblad version.

Historical note: Zeiss wasn't V. Hasselblad's first 'choice'; Kodak, his former employer, was.



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Going way back to Colin's idea of a digital back in remote places, the risk of failure and the horrendous cost of a back up.

Why not a V-series 'blad with digital back, plus a film back with film for back up if the electronics go? Even a back up body becomes financially and practically possible as a stripped back body does not weigh or cost that much.

To paraphrase Voltaire's Pangloss: 'the best of all possible worlds'.

Or is the logic as flawed as Pangloss' was...such as the inability to charge batteries if too remote etc.

One has to give up on a 28mm lens, but that is only for a tiny percentage only anyway. And the fancy electronics, colour management etc...or at least until 5 years or so hence, when 2nd hand H3Ds are cheap!
 
Historical note: Zeiss wasn't V. Hasselblad's first 'choice'; Kodak, his former employer, was.

More Historical Notes:

- Kodak wasn't his employer, but one of the places where Victor trained. He also did that at Zeiss.
Hasselblad's grandfather struck a deal with George Eastman, and the Hasselblad company became the distributor of Eastman products in Scandinavia. They remained that until (i forget) somewhere in the 1970s. That Kodak deal, not the camera factory, is where V. Hasselblad made most of his money.

- Zeiss became Victor Hasselblad's choice, because they were then available again, because Kodak was too expensive, and perhaps too because the very first "Hasselblad" camera ever (late 19th century) had a Zeiss lens.
 
Yeah, QG, I admit I couldn't quite recall any precise details of VH's time at Kodak, so went with the shorthand. Also, I knew you would correct any serious errors
happy.gif
.

I wasn't aware that the family company had used Zeiss, but I suppose many did at that time. I was obviously talking about Victor Hasselblad (not the FW Hasselblad company) and was to make the point that modern-era Hasselblad's initial (starting from the 1600F, just so we are laboured and clear) outside collaborator on lenses was not Zeiss, but Kodak.

Will some of the arcane details of VH's gallivanting beyond that he 'roamed the globe, spending this period of his life as an apprentice in the camera industry. First in Germany and France, then in the United States, working in camera and film factories, developing labs, camera shops' appear on HH?

Along with adding the Xpan to the history, perhaps?
 
Will some of the arcane details of VH's gallivanting [...] appear on HH?

Eventually, yes.

Along with adding the Xpan to the history, perhaps?

Not sure. I think the H-series, which is mentioned, may already be too much, it being something from after the Victor-era.

But write and submit an article so good it can't be refused, and you'll see how steadfast that principle is.
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Well I have been very interested in this raging debate. I have just come accross an interesting quote from Marc Williams on November 23rd (Photo.net under M8 problems)

"I dont need my H2D39 to shoot candid images at a wedding. I need a light fast and simple camera that doesnt exaust me during 8 hours of hectic shooting. Enter the M cameras M7 for Black and White M8 for digital colour. Hourse for courses.

Well Marc, that is very much my current viewpoint. I could not have put it better myself.

Enjoy

Richard
 
Marc,

and I seemed to recall there were limitations to the 90 degree finder in terms of certain backs

No limitations with 6x4.5 backs...
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Richard

When i was a young guy and could not afford more than just a VOIGTLANDER VITO B , i used to say , you can afford LF gear not before you are old , but then , you can't carry it any more .
So , when getting older , our gear is getting smaller and less heavy , but we still expect , that this gear is able to do all work for us . Impossible . Just impossible .
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"Never underestimate the reliability of a simple, ancient invention like a roll film. There is just so little that can go wrong with that compared to the electronic gizmo's of today."

I have to agree. I think QG is overly defensive of the electronic marvels that give new users grief. It is also incorrect IMHO to cite user driven problems of 120 film cameras in the same context.

While I am not worried about the user driven problems associated with the all singing and dancing digi-electronic-marvels (and gee, earlier in this thread there were some serious user as well as reliability issues expressed - short memories?) although better design etc. would help minimized user issues; I would be concerned about reliability issues - a very different thing!

Leave user problems out of it for a minute - reliability and value for money are the issues. Second versions rarely offer 100% fixes, because while old issues may be fixed the quest of manufacturers (as Marc well describes) is to keep releasing the latest - so new issues arise while old ones get sorted (mostly anyway).

Making analogies with expensive and complex cars is a bit misleading too - reliability is vital to the likes of Mercedes and BMW - yes normal wear and tear involves mechanics and even break-downs, but equipment maintenance needs is again another issue.

Just as Jurgen also said, it's about getting value for money and realising the technological benefits promised (or sticking with the tried and proven you are happy with).

Intensive commercial users like Marc have both high tolerance (the benefits way out-rate the problems) and low tolerance (disruption to work and income). For non-commercial users, the investment decision draws in both issues of on-going reliability and users experience / convenience. When both go wrong, the cost/benefit equation gets distorted, so we elect to keep our money and use an old but proven technology that might still meet our needs.

But hearing the experiences and of pro-users here is of great value to me as too are differing opinions.
z04_smileys26.gif
 
... oh, and by the way - maybe makers of complex and expensive MF digi-backs could take a leaf out of auto-manufacturers' book (who thought I would ever say that!).

New cars are given a dealer pre-delivery inspection - the last chance to check for bugs and keep the statistics of new buyer satisfaction up. They also do product hand-overs to help ensure no user error issues after leaving the dealer's premises (I am sure some camera dealers do that).
 
Simon

A product handover including detailed instructions is "celebrated" by my dealer . This is valid for all digibacks , he sells , LEAF , PHASE ONE and also HASSELBLAD , but also for highend scanners like the FLEXTIGHT X1 and X5 . For the price these items cost , you can expect that .
True ? ? ?
z04_menno.gif
 
A product handover including detailed instructions is "celebrated" by my dealer .>

Jurgen:

You are fortunate. I have purchased items and or visited many of the larger and some smaller camera stores in America.

Here, now days you are lucky if you get a thank you. The vast majority of sales persons I've encountered don't know the products as well as any informed buyer does and or they are full of misinformation.

So today, thanks to the internet, I obtain a manual or book before I purchase. I read Wildi's book before I purchased my Hasselblad.


Good Shopping:

Gilbert
 
People shop price at big impersonal outlets, and then complain when they get what they paid for... no personal service.

My Imacon rep is local, I paid the higher price to get the attention I need. When I sprung for a 949 scanner, he took it out of the box at his place and used it for a day to make sure it'd be perfect when delivered. It was.
 
I think the analogies with expensive cars are in fact quite on the mark.

Just look at how much 'fun' BMW and particularly Mercedes had in recent years with their electronics.

Wilko
 
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