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Jurgen.
I have gone digital on my V system - a Leaf Aptus 22.
As for why? I much prefer digital to film... end of story.
- Instant knowledge that you have the shot.
- 16bit images
- no processing film and scanning
- can "process" the raw file in different ways to get the most out of it
- saves me a hell of a lot of time
I chose the V system because it was cheaper to set-up with multiple lenses and bodies.
I also have a Flexbody to give some shift and tilt options that the H system is yet to have.. and will probably cost a crazy amount if/when it finally does get that ability.
This suits my studio and landscape photograhy to use this system that has only manual focus. I don't know if I would use a V system for fashion photography.
 
Ulrik, I think the small amount of market potential precludes more advanced development of the CFV digital system. We're probably lucky Hasselblad threw us a bone with the 16 meg CVF back.

Andrew, how do you use the Aptus 22? Do you have to manually rotate the back for portrait orientation? BTW, I had the Aptus 22 in Mamiya mount for my RZ ( the back rotates), and 645 AFDII ... but moved to the 75 recently for the higher ISOs.

Most professional photographers I've had the opportunity of working with in the US use Imacons and Phase One backs and a few Sinar. None yet used a V system, but either a 645 or mounted the back on a sliding mount for use with a view camera ... or both.

Jurgen, I'm in a rare position of owing and using all 5 variations you listed.

IMO, the way to go depends entirely on your creative needs, amount of shooting, and variety of applications.

If you are a versatile professional or advanced amateur, I'd say (ddd) but include some AF HC lenses also. Most pros I've work with use 645s with backs from Imacon or Phase One that also mount on view cameras for studio work with tilts and shifts. None I've worked with to date use a V camera.

For most applications other than a deep need for wide work, the CFV back is the most user friendly solution to go direct digital with the V series cameras. For users of the 200 series cameras it is the only practical solution ... which is why I got a CFV ... it works on both camera systems.

I want to offer a caveat for those thinking about moving into MF digital capture. It is not for the faint of heart, the financially frugal, or the technically challenged.

All these backs require a steep learning curve, (the least steep is the CFV, but still isn't all that easy) unless you are inclined to understand the workings and ideocyratic ways of computers ... and are willing to make a lot of investment in money as well as time.

As I mentioned in an above post, these backs are not without their issues. My Aptus 22 and 33 meg, and Imacon 22 and 39 meg camera backs have suddenly decided to screw up ... on occasion due to user error, but just as frequently on their own. As usual, when gremlins attack, they do so at the most inopportune times. In some cases with no warning from the LCD read out which looks okay .... but the file is garbage. You have to learn a whole new trouble shooting routine, and better have a direct line to tech help.

This is fresh on my mind right now because I fired up my H2D/39 this AM and it said "Invalid Calibration" and produces no usable file at all. It worked fine last time I used it. Even my local tech guy is perplexed, and has to call in the heavy Imacon guns for a solution. Meanwhile I have $30,000. paper weight sitting here.

Lastly, there is the Scanner route: IMO, this is a very valid way to produce top notch images to work on in the digital domain. It's a slower way, but for many that isn't the issue, the issue is preserving the look of the films that they love.

If I didn't have such a broad variety of needs from wedding work, to table top, to lifestyle, to portraiture, to handheld location ... my choice would be the V system cameras, film backs, CFV digital back, and a decent MF scanner. For the price of a CF/22, you can get the CFV back and an Imacon 848 scanner (maybe less if you can find a demo 848). Best of both worlds IMO. Need wide stuff from a 40 or SWC? ... shoot film and scan it.
 
Hi Marc.
Yes I do have to manually take off the back and rotate it.
It would be wonderful if it could stay on the camera (like the Mamiya RZ) so that there is little chance of dust getting onto the sensor, but it is very easy and quick to take off and rotate.
Especially in a slower more deliberate studio situation it is not a problem at all.
Like I said earlier, if it was for fashion - telling the model to "Jump, Jump, now squat and jump at the same time... You're a Lemur!! You're a Lemur!! " ... then it would not be the ideal setup.
 
Thanks to all who helped answer my last question here - I have been off air ill and have much reading to catch up on.

But, I did read this thread earlier, from the beginning while "laid up" and was amazed by all the information about such expensive equipment having so many technical problems - personally I'd be fearful of laying out big money in any man's language only to discover electronic glitches!
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I have zero tollerance of gadgets that do not perform exactly as advertised which may explain why Apple, HP and others find me a pain in the but!
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...... now back to my ctach up reading. Thanks again.
 
I have always thought that if I were to revisit some of the remote places that I have lived, a digital back might be a good idea. I know it can be hard to buy my favourite emulsion in 220, north of the Arctic Circle for ex&le.
A couple of large capacity memory cards and an ability to download to a PC would provide me unlimited shooting abilities. Now I read from Marc's note that I would/could, also need a "Local Tech.Guy." or a direct line to the manufacturer.
This doesn't bode well with me for handing over large amounts of cash for electronic apparatus. In addition to "buying" quality with those extra dollars, I would like to have thought that I was buying additional reliability too. I think my steep learning curve will remain unclimbed!
 
Colin,

People who drive cars do so even though they know they will need a garage and the help of mechanics now and again.
Most cars cost more.
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Qnu, When I spend $80,000 on a car, I expect and indeed do get, quality and reliability. It doesn't leave my mechanic "perplexed". I could spend $20,000 and be satified with "reliability" only.

Spending $16,000 on a digital back should get me more of both compared to spending $4,000 on a digital camera.

I have never been reluctant to take my Leica's into the remote field and never hesitated to do likewise with my 500c/m. Both of these equate to my $80,000 car. I feel that gliches exist in the digital backs(based on Marc's comments-and others) which imparts a suspect of unreliability for me. I have absolutely no doubt, the quality is the best of the day.
 
LOL, you folks take everything to an extreme. I didn't say it was the rule, but more the exception to have technical issues with these MF backs. On the other hand they do happen more than some here may suspect.

Q.G. is pretty accurate in his analogy. The difference here is the guy that first tried to solve my recent problem isn't the mechanic, he's the sales guy that knows a lot about the the inner workings of the backs. Try to find a car salesman that could do that : -)

So, here's my second pearl of wisdom: don't buy the latest, greatest. Buy second generation.

Here's why: the MF back makers are in a fierce battle to be first in, best dressed. They are all pushing the limits of their mental and financial resources in an effort to capture a fairly small amount of sales potential. None of them are a Canon with huge reserves of both ( if some executive at Canon took a fancy to medium format digital photography, I'd hazard a guess that Hasselblad, Phase One and Leaf would cease to exist in short order : -0

The result is that new products are coming to market at an accelerated rate. The answer to the Canon 1DsMKII being touted as MF quality, was to raise the image quality bar to such heights that such chatter ceased immediately. Moving this fast isn't without it's perils, thus some of the issues that arise in the day-to-day use of newer technology by early adopters like myself, as well as many others who I communicate with on specialized forums dedicated to complex interfaces between MF backs, software, and third party programs.
Leaf and Phase One are not immune to the same dynamics. When I called my rep for help on my H2D/39, he was working out an issue on a P45 back (he sells both).

BTW, they couldn't solve my problem over the phone, so I will have a new H2D/39 in my hands today !!!!

Many of the more mature backs are far more known entities, and most firmware issues have been worked out. For years prior to getting into the Imacons and Leafs, I used a Kodak ProBack 645C. After years of firmware and software refinements this back was as close to bullet proof as you could expect. My pal Irakly still uses this back, and is currently in Siberia with it (and the Leica M8 BTW).

IMO, the CFV is in the same basic category as the ProBack, only offers slightly better image quality (16 bit verses 12 bit, and more advanced firmware/software) ... as well as being directly compatible with the V series cameras mechanically and visually.

If you want a 22 meg or 33meg or 39 meg back, wait. In 2 years it'll have evolved and most, if not all issues will have been identified and corrected. I'll be the guy bitching about my 65 meg Fovan back, and you'll be in the Arctic Circle snapping away ... LOL.
 
Marc wrote ...............the issue is preserving the look of the films that they love .

I have a book in front of me : BRILLIANT WATERS by Elizabeth Carmel .
http://www.ElizabethCarmel.com
Most images were taken with a HASSELBLAD H1 and a 22MB Imacon back . I love the images , but they are so perfect , too perfect indeed , that they have a special charisma .
I also look at VICTORbyHASSELBLAD . All these beauty and fashion images have the same charisma . They all look too perfect and therefore almost artificial .
Now , i have 2 B/W prints in the size of 40x50 and 60x80 on my wall , with decent lights for them . They show almost the identical image . Mine is scanned from a 4x5 negative and printed on EPSON SPRO 4800 . The tonality is great and it show wonderful details . The other is from ANDREAS WEIDNER (a well known B/W photographer) . The tonality is great , the details are great and the image shows a wonderful depth , which can not be achieved from the digital workflow . Not from the direct digital flow and also not from the hybrid flow .

What are your experiences with analog and digital prints ? ? ?
 
IN Response to Simon P Galbally who is; "amazed by all the information about such expensive equipment having so many technical problems"

IN 1969 I purchased a new Chevy SS Camaro for $2600, with a 350 V8 engine, and special transmission. I kept that car for 12 years, before my son adopted it as his car in High School.

I recently saw a mint 1969 Camaro offered for sale at $65,000, which goes to show that old ideas never seem to die. A new BMW 330 costs about $40,000 but is far more technically advanced and safer than that 1969 Camaro. Both cars share in not being perfect, as perfect is reached in each successive generation of product iteration after iteration. It is how we live.

Cameras, film, digital capture, and zeros with one's are a successive line of improvements from the original pin hole camera. Were any perfect? With any product, each has it's day, and each has it's place in history.

Camera improvements, new films, technical problems, glitches, software updates, and competitive products all contribute to an ever escalating cost increase to achieve a 'picture'.

It is about a 'Picture', not about the equipment. BUT it is also about the photographer too and his comfort level with a love of new equipment.

I am amazed by a fascination of capturing the 'Image', minute thin time slices of our passing civilization, wondering in years of centuries to come what others in the future will see in us?
 
Well put! Those of us who have been tempted successfully in the past to buy the latest PC hardware (and/or software) are only too familiar with the pitfalls of the latest versions of electronic devices. Again, the last version before the present is genrally more reliable than the current one. Another similarity is that last year's device is almost worthless!

What saddens me most, as I have expressed before, is not the move away from film but the lack of "full frame", or at least 645 digital backs for the Hasselblad, thus wasting the superb Zeiss optics. Only Canon seems to have addressed this issue properly, albeit for 35mm.
 
> There is a reason the IT people coined the phrase about being on > the "bleeding edge" of technology.......
 
" ... or at least 645 digital backs for the Hasselblad."

Huh? All the full frame 645 digital backs work on the Hasselblad cameras.

Well, they are not quite full frame, they are 1.1X of a full 645. But that is irrevlant since the ratio is more practical for normal print sizes.

"What are your experiences with analog and digital prints ? ? ?"

This is an interesting question. Analog B&W is still superior IMO. However, the ink-jet printers get better every generation, and papers are being being developed that look and feel like fiber based analog versions.

I've recently taken to the use of Crain's Mueso Silver Rag to print B&W film scans ... which is a double weight ink-jet paper that looks so much like a silver print that it's scary. The only problem is that it only comes in letter size as of now.
 
the last version before the present is genrally more reliable than the current one.

The last version before the present was the current version before the presently current version appeared.

So i guess one should wait until the current version in turn is superceded by an even newer version, before buying the then second latest version.
But then, the then second latest version was the latest, or current, version before the two versions appeared that made it the second latest version.
So [etc.]
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People who buy 'the latest' always get to taste the benefits of having the latest, before people who wait until the latest has become yesterdays news.
 
Marc, with all due respect - 645 is not 49x36.7mm - I know this seems nitpicking, but for the money they could have given us a 54x41mm sensor and used the Zeiss lenses appropriately. This may seem to be nitpicking, but the difference is about 416 square millimetres (the equivalent of half a 35mm frame).

My suspicion is that these characters just want to sell run of the mill Japanese optics at inflated prices under the Hasselblad name, because they expect that nobody will make any direct comparisons.
 
So i guess one should wait until the current version in turn is superceded by an even newer version, before buying the then second latest version

Oh...
"superseded".
 
Bojan
I believe , that the FUJI lenses are very, very good . What i still do not understand , why was the H-SYSTEM not possible with CARL ZEISS lenses . I have already heared lots of stories and arguments . But i do also believe , that CARL ZEISS is absolutely able to design and produce the AF lenses for the H-SYSTEM in the highest possible and required quality .
One thing i noticed is , that FUJI stopped production of their own MF cameras , such as GW690III and all others .
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Jürgen,

I think the reason is a very simple one: money. Zeiss is very expensive.

Hasselblad moved away from Zeiss with their 60-120 mm Zoom.
They stayed with Fuji for their X-Pan.
Fuji was involved in the H-project too.
So...

But does it really matter?

Fuji may have stopped production of Fuji cameras, but you, Jürgen, are not among the hords who think the H-series cameras are Fuji cameras, are you?!
 
I agree Jurgen, some (not all) of the Fuji made lenses are very,very good ... the 100/2.2 and 300/4.5 actually surprised me.

At the time of the H camera introduction, the Contax 645 was still in full swing ... and was a direct competitor to a 645 from Hasselblad. Zeiss was under contract to Kyocera to make all the lenses in Japan for the Contax camera.

True about the size Bojan, and I said it actually produced a 1.1X factor ... so a 28mm lens is the equivlant of a 30.8 mm. Yet look at the ratio of the sensor. In practical use 645 requires cropping to make most standard prints ... images from these backs less so.
 
Today's motor vehicles are far more complex than digital cameras, and more reliable. Frankly, there are a lot of vehicles available in America, for less that $39,000, but not any that I know of less than $9,995.

I would defer to Colin as to how many mechanics are located in the Arctic.

In today's business world the consumer is the Research and Development center. So, your purchases are the seed money for development and improvement. Those that participate enjoy the fruits and pay for the privilege. In the world of electronics and computers, as the product flourishes the cost to the consumer decreases and the reliability vastly improves. Look around your home, the cost, features, and reliability of your first computer, printer, vcr, televisions, telephones, and recall the costs of cell phones that were five hundred dollars last year are given away now.

It is a tough business that to survive has to create new products to stay in business, unlike the old camera companies like Leica and Hasselblad, that could make a living on technologies from the '20's and products produced in the '50's.


Regards:

Gilbert
 
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