I wonder if this affects the CFV?

[nathantw666]

If "no news is good news", then what is a lot of news?

One of the big news items at the opening day of this year's Photokina is that, in addition to launching a range of new products, Hasselblad has also announced a dramatic new pricing strategy, with up to 40% savings on all of our digital camera products.

We are thrilled to be able to offer the finest camera systems in the world at a price that will allow even more photographers to enjoy the Hasselblad level of quality and performance, and want to be absolutely clear as to what this new pricing strategy means for you the photographer.

What does the new pricing strategy entail?

Simply put, it means lower prices on all Hasselblad digital products. The new, lower price level is based on two primary cornerstones. Firstly, most new high-tech products begin with a high price point, and high-end digital camera products have been no exception. Over time, increased volume and improved production techniques eventually allow lower prices and more accessible products. This is now happening in our industry. We can now produce our cameras at a lower cost and we can pass the savings on to photographers.

Secondly, by significantly lowering the retail price we are able to remove the necessity of a trade-up program, which means that even lower pricing is possible. The end result is a simple and straightforward pricing model which allows us to bring the full range of H3DII cameras, from the entry level H3DII-31 to the new H3DII-50 and upcoming H3DII-60, to photographers at a dramatically lower price. And in addition, as the proud owner of a Hasselblad H3D camera, this means that in the future you will be able to purchase new Hasselblad cameras at a lower cost, and be able to keep your previous camera as a back-up.

For most discerning photographers the only reason not to have a Hasselblad has been that they couldn't afford one. We hope that our new pricing will enable a whole new generation of photographers to experience these amazing cameras.
www.hasselblad.com

 

[blowupster]

Your question was my first question about Photokina event.

 

[polypal]

Hasselblad cancels the trade in facilities that encouraged photographers to switch to new H3D cameras
and receive a large check for their old equipment.
The 40 % discount on all H3D is paid for a substantial part by the cancelling these trade in facilities.

The good news is that larger quantities of older used digital cameras and backs will become available for the amateur market.
Prices for these items will be more in line with what amateurs are prepared to spend.

This is probably the best news this Photokina has for amateurs and professional photographers who want to switch to digital without taking a second mortgage on their homes.

 

[blowupster]

Nathan's question was: "I wonder if this affects the CFV?"

40% off on new prices (of the CFV) is not the same as waiting on used market.

With such new offer on CFV-II, I buy it tomorow befor noon. For second hand market....

At this price, Hasselblad will be overbooked for years with old horses demands of revision. You cann imagine the number of "decorativ" gears sleeping for long years in the humidity suddenly fitted with new digital back. The oil and greace became glue

 

[nathantw666]

Nathan's question was: "I wonder if this affects the CFV?"

40% off on new prices (of the CFV) is not the same as waiting on used market.

With such new offer on CFV-II, I buy it tomorow befor noon. For second hand market....

At this price, Hasselblad will be overbooked for years with old horses demands of revision. You cann imagine the number of "decorativ" gears sleeping for long years in the humidity suddenly fitted with new digital back. The oil and greace became glue

Yes, I wonder how this will affect prices of the CFV-II? If they dropped it by 40% it'll be fantastic, but knowing Hasselblad this will only apply to their H-line and their film scanners. I guess we'll see though.

As for the Hasselblad gear's grease turning to glue, well, if there's a market for camera repair it's a good time to go back into it. I used to know a camera repair person and he decided to close shop when everyone was going digital. Could it be a good time to go back into the business?

 

[polypal]

As for the Hasselblad gear's grease turning to glue, well, if there's a market for camera repair it's a good time to go back into it. I used to know a camera repair person and he decided to close shop when everyone was going digital. Could it be a good time to go back into the business?

It will not take 10 years from now and you will have trouble finding a decent repairshop for any V series camera.
Most experienced technicians are fast approaching retirement.
I do not think Hasselblad will offer parts and service for another 10 years.

Parts supply for V series is virtually impossible.
Hasselblad would rather have the cameras and lenses in Sweden for repair.
Shipping to and from Sweden starts with 100 euro for clients in Europe.
Hasselblad encourages that any camera is offered at a dealer who will arrange shipping to Sweden.
Official dealers are more and more difficult to find.
That means even the smallest job will cost 250 euro.



Smaller margins and price drops regardless of what dealers have in stock have not exactly encouraged enthousiasm with dealers.
The now announced new prices for H series camera are partly paid by dealers.
Their profit margin will be affected.

I would not buy Hasselblad stock with powerful competition from Leica and possibly another major manufacturer of 35mm based DSLR cameras coming up.

Better enjoy V series cameras as much as we can while it still is possible.
It will become more and more difficult to have these cameras serviced regardless of the cost involved.

 

[bensonga]

Better enjoy V series cameras as much as we can while it still is possible. It will become more and more difficult to have these cameras serviced regardless of the cost involved.

Hi Paul,

I hadn't really thought about this.....just wondering if there is anything special I should do to keep my 501CM and 553ELX in good working order. They look to be in excellent condition.....but I don't have a service history on either camera. Is the most important thing to just keep using them on a regular basis (so the grease doesn't harden up etc)?

Now that I've finally got the Hasselblads I always dreamed of owning....I want to make sure I can keep using them for the next 20+ years!

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska

 

[ComicDom1]

What does the new pricing strategy entail?


Simply put, it means lower prices on all Hasselblad digital products. The new, lower price level is based on two primary cornerstones. Firstly, most new high-tech products begin with a high price point, and high-end digital camera products have been no exception. Over time, increased volume and improved production techniques eventually allow lower prices and more accessible products. This is now happening in our industry. We can now produce our cameras at a lower cost and we can pass the savings on to photographers.

Secondly, by significantly lowering the retail price we are able to remove the necessity of a trade-up program, which means that even lower pricing is possible. The end result is a simple and straightforward pricing model which allows us to bring the full range of H3DII cameras, from the entry level H3DII-31 to the new H3DII-50 and upcoming H3DII-60, to photographers at a dramatically lower price. And in addition, as the proud owner of a Hasselblad H3D camera, this means that in the future you will be able to purchase new Hasselblad cameras at a lower cost, and be able to keep your previous camera as a back-up.

For most discerning photographers the only reason not to have a Hasselblad has been that they couldn't afford one. We hope that our new pricing will enable a whole new generation of photographers to experience these amazing cameras.
www.hasselblad.com



Well I think that Hasselblad's decision to announce this is partly due to the announcement of the new Lecia that is scheduled to be released sometime in 2009. If you take into consideration that the camera they announced sits squarely between the MF Digital Camera Back and the higher end Pro models from Canon, Nikon, and Semi Pro from Sony maybe Hasselblad felt that some of their market share might be at risk.

I know personally, with the cost of a Digital Back, or even moving up to a Medium Format Digital Body, I would certainly look long and hard at the other options available to me.


I was quoted a Refurb CFV Back for my camera about a month ago. The refurb is 16MP but of course its not full frame MF. It only carries a 6 month warranty and that was priced at $7400.00. In addition to this I was told that I would also have to buy a $395 cable to make it all work. The new CVF was around $10,400.00 and only carried a 1 year warranty. Of course Phase one was slightly less.


I do not know about anyone else, but $10,400 is a little rich for me. I can shoot a lot of film for that. Like anyone else, I want all I can get for my hard earned money.

Jason

If "no news is good news", then what is a lot of news?

One of the big news items at the opening day of this year's Photokina is that, in addition to launching a range of new products, Hasselblad has also announced a dramatic new pricing strategy, with up to 40% savings on all of our digital camera products.

We are thrilled to be able to offer the finest camera systems in the world at a price that will allow even more photographers to enjoy the Hasselblad level of quality and performance, and want to be absolutely clear as to what this new pricing strategy means for you the photographer.

What does the new pricing strategy entail?

Simply put, it means lower prices on all Hasselblad digital products. The new, lower price level is based on two primary cornerstones. Firstly, most new high-tech products begin with a high price point, and high-end digital camera products have been no exception. Over time, increased volume and improved production techniques eventually allow lower prices and more accessible products. This is now happening in our industry. We can now produce our cameras at a lower cost and we can pass the savings on to photographers.

Secondly, by significantly lowering the retail price we are able to remove the necessity of a trade-up program, which means that even lower pricing is possible. The end result is a simple and straightforward pricing model which allows us to bring the full range of H3DII cameras, from the entry level H3DII-31 to the new H3DII-50 and upcoming H3DII-60, to photographers at a dramatically lower price. And in addition, as the proud owner of a Hasselblad H3D camera, this means that in the future you will be able to purchase new Hasselblad cameras at a lower cost, and be able to keep your previous camera as a back-up.

For most discerning photographers the only reason not to have a Hasselblad has been that they couldn't afford one. We hope that our new pricing will enable a whole new generation of photographers to experience these amazing cameras.
www.hasselblad.com

edited: Quote restored

 

[polypal]

Hi Gary,


Hasselblad cameras are built to last.
They deserve a good CLA every 3-5 years depending on the way they are used.
It pays to have them serviced. They will go on providing excellent and reliable performance.
Wear is reduced for cameras that are serviced in time.

A good CLA......





Even the oldest cilivian Hasselblads are still going strong.
In the hands of a careful owner the 1600F gives excellent pictures.

The wonderful drama of an evening sky and its incredible colours. Taken with a Hasselblad 1600F and Carl Zeiss Tessar 80mm f2.8 lens using Fujifilm NPH 400 low colour saturation film.


Photo Simon Galbally, Melbourne Australia





Parts for certain models can be a problem like for the 1000F.
The reason is quite unexpected. These cameras are so well built there are practically no 1000F cameras broken.
The pile of parts that was stored in a garden shed for over 10 years was turned into an excellent camera instead of being used for spares.





garden shed find 1000F 1956

Excellent user camera 1000F Collection Ulrik Photo Ulrik





Is this a story about old collectable Hasselblads?
No it is to show all V series cameras are built to last.
They will go on providing excellent service and will do that for many years to come.
A good CLA will help to give them a longer life and does improve their performance.

As time goes by it will be more difficult to find a good technician who provides excellent service.
Do yourself a favor and help these guys make a living by offering older gear for a service job. It is worth the money and the effort.


Paul

 

[uaiomex]

Paul. You just ruined it for me.
I was truly excited about Hasselblad latest news and thinking how this discounts will push prices down of used dbacks of all brands.

I've been thinking on buying a used P45 (few more months) for my 500CM, but your post almost turned my world upside down. I don't see it good to spend around 12K to 15k for a dback to fit a camera that I was planning on using for next 10 years or so, which service and parts are almost non-existent today, worse to say in 5 or 10 years.

So, should I go ahead in paying that kind of money and trust my lucky star?
I know, this is only up to me. Just debating here (mainly with myself).

Paul: You didn't ruined it for me. Just getting your attention. Actually I think is very commendable from you to be this honest about the state of the V.
Actually you made see the new systems more attractive or not at all. Those damn dslr's are achieving true levels of excellence, for peanuts (relative) and generally trouble-free.
Thanks Paul. A few comments will be welcome
Eduardo

Suddenly

It will not take 10 years from now and you will have trouble finding a decent repairshop for any V series camera.
Most experienced technicians are fast approaching retirement.
I do not think Hasselblad will offer parts and service for another 10 years.

Parts supply for V series is virtually impossible.
Hasselblad would rather have the cameras and lenses in Sweden for repair.
Shipping to and from Sweden starts with 100 euro for clients in Europe.
Hasselblad encourages that any camera is offered at a dealer who will arrange shipping to Sweden.
Official dealers are more and more difficult to find.
That means even the smallest job will cost 250 euro.



Smaller margins and price drops regardless of what dealers have in stock have not exactly encouraged enthousiasm with dealers.
The now announced new prices for H series camera are partly paid by dealers.
Their profit margin will be affected.

I would not buy Hasselblad stock with powerful competition from Leica and possibly another major manufacturer of 35mm based DSLR cameras coming up.

Better enjoy V series cameras as much as we can while it still is possible.
It will become more and more difficult to have these cameras serviced regardless of the cost involved.

 

[bensonga]

I've been thinking on buying a used P45 (few more months) for my 500CM, but your post almost turned my world upside down. I don't see it good to spend around 12K to 15k for a dback to fit a camera that I was planning on using for next 10 years or so, which service and parts are almost non-existent today, worse to say in 5 or 10 years.
Eduardo

Buy a NEW 503CWD-II with a 40mm IF CFE lens for $12,995. You get a NEW Hasselblad V camera, a great digital back with the 9 micron "fat pixels" and a terrific lens. I don't think we'll have to worry about Hasselblad V-System service on this camera for quite awhile. I still think the current 503CWD-II kit is a bargain.

And maybe someday Hasselblad will come out with that 48x48 chip back.

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska

 

[ComicDom1]

I may be sort of the new kid on the block when it comes to Hasselblad. Granted I still have a lot to learn. In all reality when I first started considering buying a Hasselblad I talked to a factory trained independent repairman named David Odess in the US. I have no idea how old David is but he certainly gave no indication that he is going to retire or disappear in the next 10 years. I am sure there are other factory trained independant service people out there as well.

When I intially contacted David, the only thing he did caution me about was about certain parts availablity of C lenses. He suggested going with at least CF type lenses.

When I decided to go with the 201F, I did contact David again and found out that he did not service that model of camera. So I called Hasselblad direct in New Jersey and spoke with their servie dept. From what I understand, they still have a good stock of parts available and do service the 201F. I am pretty sure this applies to the 500 C/M as well. Taking in the volume of the 500 series cameras sold, this only makes sense.

I have no idea what the situation in other parts of the world, but I personally am pretty confindent that I will be ok for the next 10 years and possibly the next 20. During that period, I will hit my 70's and if all goes well with normal use, I do imagine I will have to have my camera CLA more than 6 times if that. Of course it all depends on the volume of frames you shoot. I have no idea how long the 503 model it going to continued to be sold or what internal parts that it shares with the other 500 series. I do know that at least in the US that normally from the time a product is sold new the company selling it is usually required to stock parts and provide service for a specific time period. I think this is 7 years but it may be different for cameras.

I would think the greater concern would be the availablity of Film.

As far as Digital Backs are concerned, no one seems to be able to quote what their life cycle actually is. In addition, you have companies like leaf that will not even service their earlier models of digital backs and from my research, those backs require a unique card for your computer that was only available through Leaf. While there are other companies besides Hasselblad that produce Digital backs for the 500 series camera's, I find it of great concern of how long they will continue to service the backs they sell, because of the significant costs involved in optaining one.

I have no idea how many people are out there that can afford to replace a digital back or upgrade every few years. I guess you can budget for it or start looking at other options that might be more sensable for your particular situation. I am constantly amazed at those who were the early pioneers and the money they have spent on digital products just to pave the way for the rest of us.

The key to any company that desires to be successful is to create products people want, maintain a reasonable profit, and increase market share. In this day and age, it really makes one wonder if the market will have the demand necessary to support the growth and profit necessary for companies like Hasselblad who continue in the Medium format arena.

Once again I am very late to the Hasselblad game so my opinion might be incorrect or just reflect a different way of looking at things.

Jason

 

[polypal]

"Parts supply for V series is virtually impossible.
Hasselblad would rather have the cameras and lenses in Sweden for repair."

This calls for an explanation:

In Europe parts and service were available from Hasselblad branches in many countries.
Many of these import companies were closed in 2004 some even years earlier.
As far as I know only England, Ireland and Germany still have an official Hasselblad import.
Italy, Belgium, France, Holland and Luxemburg lost their Hasselblad service centers together with the import companies.
Hasselblad was aiming to have all repairs done in a new large servicecenter in Sweden.
Dealers were instructed to send cameras and lenses to Sweden.
The cost for shipping started at 100 euro about 150 USD at the current exchange rate.
For small jobs this facility proved useless. Maybe for larger problems that could be an option.

Ordering parts without a part number by description only is tricky.
As a result dealers are reluctant to order spares.
For independent repair companies in Europe spares are difficult to get.

In the US the situation is much better.
Hasselblad N.J. will gladly ship any parts needed to destinations in the US.
They have the knowledge which parts are needed and stock most parts.
The same goes for Australia where Kennedy is the importer for Hasselblad.
They have a service center and a stock of spares. no problems there.

There are three technicians who do repairs and even complete restauration jobs for me.
My nr. 1 Hasselblad guy is 64 years old. The specialist for lenses is 65 years old. Amazingly the specialist for pre 500 series cameras, 1600F and 1000F, is a youngster he is 52.

David Odess has a total of 32 years experience servicing Hasselblad.
He had other jobs before joining Hasselblad in his mid twenties as far as I remember.
So David is also well in his fiftiesmaybe even a little older.

David Knapman in Sweden is in his late sixties, sorry David the truth must come out.

That is the general situation now.
The relatively good situation for service from independents will certainly change in the next 5 to 10 years.

I can only encourage users of the V series who own older cameras to have their cameras serviced while the situation is still good.
Of course there will always be companies that will handle older cameras.
Their number will be smaller, their prices will go up.

Right now there is no specialist for early Hasselblads in the US.
I know of only two people who will accept these cameras for service:
David Knapman in Sweden and the guy who does my cameras.

Eduardo buy your digital back for your 500 series camera. No problem there.
The 503 CW is still being made in Sweden.
A new 503 will last at least ten years even if you shoot 10 rolls of film or the equivalent in digital every day.

Paul

 

[uaiomex]

Paul. You just ruined it for me.
I was truly excited about Hasselblad latest news and thinking how this discounts will push prices down of used dbacks of all brands.

I've been thinking on buying a used P45 (few more months) for my 500CM, but your post almost turned my world upside down. I don't see it good to spend around 12K to 15k for a dback to fit a camera that I was planning on using for next 10 years or so, which service and parts are almost non-existent today, worse to say in 5 or 10 years.

So, should I go ahead in paying that kind of money and trust my lucky star?
I know, this is only up to me. Just debating here (mainly with myself).

Paul: You didn't ruined it for me. Just getting your attention. Actually I think is very commendable from you to be this honest about the state of the V.
Actually you made see the new systems more attractive or not at all. Those damn dslr's are achieving true levels of excellence, for peanuts (relative) and generally trouble-free.
Thanks Paul. A few comments will be welcome
Eduardo

 

[uaiomex]

Well, just giving Paul a hand and reposting.

Thanks Paul:
Your further explained post is a big difference. I understand there will always be a certain amount of risk investing on a system on the way out. Despite not trouble-free (for me) my 500CM has given me a huge amount of satisfaction. Currently nothing on the Hasselblad system compares to it.

Gary: I just re-read your post. A 48 square sensor CFV would certainly be heavenly.
I wonder if Hasselblad would dispense to "pass the savings" onto the photographers.

I appreciate your interest. The CWD may be a bargain but I never really considered because it's a system with no wide angle lens. Besides for 13k is darn close to the recent prices anounced by Hassy, Leaf and P1. Any of these cameras will dust the CWD. My favorite of course is Hy6/Afi. They are the only 6x6 AF cameras in the market. They did what Hasselblad very sadly missed.
I understand the H system may have well saved Hasselblad from going kaput, but that doesn't justify them being so negligent with the V system's hordes of owners.


Happy shooting
Eduardo

 

[bensonga]

Well, just giving Paul a hand and reposting.

Gary: I just re-read your post. A 48 square sensor CFV would certainly be heavenly.
I wonder if Hasselblad would dispense to "pass the savings" onto the photographers.

Eduardo

I'm not optimistic that Hasselbald will ever come out with a 48x48 chip for the V-cameras.....but we can always dream, right? In any case, I think for most of us non-professional photographers, the 16 megapixel CFV/CFV-II is more than enough. If you don't need autofocus....there are so many terrific Zeiss lenses on the used market at great prices.

And it's such a good looking camera too!

Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska

 

[polypal]

Gary,

How did you see chance to buy CWD 1 ??
I suppose you are now going to tell it is just a factory promotion shot

Paul

 

[polypal]

Eduardo,

Thanks for helping me to make some sense of this thread after I messed about with your posting.

I only wanted to comment on your view the 500 series cameras are on the way out.
They are not.
I hit the wrong button and removed your post completely.
The content is back now, merged with another post from you.


Right now there are more 500 cameras being used than H series cameras.
Do not ask me when that balance will change for the good of the H series.

These are uncertain times. Many photographers are delaying new investments.
There are several reasons for that delay:
A change in market situation because Leica will be entering the MF field.
Expensive euro's for American buyers and more difficult terms for financing.

Not a good prospect for manufacturers especially now that there is a movement to larger sensors.


Paul

 

[bensonga]

Gary,

How did you see chance to buy CWD 1 ??
I suppose you are now going to tell it is just a factory promotion shot

Paul

It's true.....that IS the factory promotion shot straight off the Hasselblad USA website for the 503CWD-II with 40mm CFE IF lens. I realize (of course), that this appears to be a 503CWD-I in the photo (numbered 1 of 500, after all), but that's the image on the Hasselblad site. Mine is of course the 503CWD-II with the wonderful 40mm lens....and without the limited edition numbered CFV-I back.

In any case......it's a wonderful camera....and good looking too! )

Gary

 

[polypal]

This morning I had the Hasselblad 503 CW with the new CFV back in my hands for the first time.
The camera is great, the display much better.
Other improvements I could not check.

The Leica S2 is a masterpiece.
I am concinced it will be strong competition for Hasselblad next year.

I visited the Photokina and met a lot of moderators from other Camera Info forums.

Paul