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The future of Hasselbladinfo.com

What are you using and what do you plan to use?

  • I stick with Hasselblad over the next 5 years

    Votes: 74 65.5%
  • I use already parallel different brands

    Votes: 66 58.4%
  • I am planning to invest in the future in different brands

    Votes: 23 20.4%
  • I am planning to switch completely to different brands/ did it already

    Votes: 11 9.7%
  • I do not mind, if this forum offers also sections for different brands

    Votes: 55 48.7%
  • I do want to have this forum for Hasselblad only, otherwise I leave

    Votes: 23 20.4%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

dirk

MFF-Founder
Administrator
Dear members,

I guess we have been all disappointed about the (lack of) real news at photokina 2012.

We see over the last 5 years, that more and more Hasselblad users are either using at the same time different brands or are switching more and more to other brands, especially since the high MP fullframe 35mm DSLRs are out.

We can not ignore this. So we have to think about the best way to go ahead, to offer you what you want to have and what you may need in 2-5 years from now.

This is why we want to make a kind of survey with you, what you are doing now, what you are currently using and what you are planning to do over the next 5 years equipment wise. You can pick more than one answer at the same time.

Depending on this, we have to make a decision whether we want to keep this Hasselblad Forum as it is today or whether we should make changes and also offer other brands in it, which you are using already anyway.

To run a forum like this costs money and due to other technical reasons, we need to switch to another software, which makes it rather complicated for us in this situation. But before we are doing this huge step, we want to make sure in what we are investing our money and our free time, so that it will be a success in the future.

Please be honest and do not guide us in the wrong directions with your answers. It is a question of survival of Hasselbladinfo.com and this great community.

Feel free to also post comments in this thread, to express in your own words what you are thinking, feeling and planning.

if you have ideas that you are missing in this or other forums, do not hesitate to tell us, what would you make excited about to find in this forum in the future.
 
Simplify the Structure

We know that Hasselblad are not a mainstream brand and their pricing restricts it to a small band of dedicated users. As the likes of Nikon and Canon have closed some of the quality gap, some cost-conscious people have defected. But Hasselblad still make an excellent camera that produces excellent results.

So, is there a need for a forum like this? I think so. But, it will never be as busy as other all-brand forums.

However, I recommend (and I think that I've recommended this before) that you simplify the structure of the forum. With low traffic, you need to get critical mass by having less "rooms" in the forum. Maybe just one big room. Then you will have more chance of people interacting, building up the conversations that create the forum's value. Also makes it easier to moderate.

It might also help if you are a bit more upbeat and don't start a major thread like this with the word "disappointed" in the first sentence... :)

regards
Peter
 
Re the survey

I really wanted to upgrade my early model Imacon/Hassey back for a new one, but I was actively rebuffed. I went to Phase One and they gave me $6K trade in credit on a P45+. A no brainer. Love it. Have added an 800e to the mix. Now if I just had time to shoot...
Jim
 
I really wanted to upgrade my early model Imacon/Hassey back for a new one, but I was actively rebuffed. I went to Phase One and they gave me $6K trade in credit on a P45+. A no brainer. Love it. Have added an 800e to the mix. Now if I just had time to shoot...
Jim

Strange. Rebuffed by who?

I got a reasonable trade-in on my CFV-16 when I bought the H4D-50. They would also have let me trade it in on a CFV-50 but I decided that the features of the H4D were too attractive. I love the true focus and zone metering options.

Regards
Peter
 
...
It might also help if you are a bit more upbeat and don't start a major thread like this with the word "disappointed" in the first sentence... :)

regards
Peter

:blush:

I am sorry if that sounded too extreme. Obviously I just can't hide, that I am personally very disappointed about the direction the new HB management seems to head for...

It is not the first time that I feel left out in the rain by a camera producer. Kyocera/Contax did that years ago already to me. I see some parallels to this.

Another brand I am heavily invested in is Sony and Sony-Zeiss lenses. Sony is currently also going into crazy directions and looking back, the whole Zeiss cooperation with them is nothing else then "overpromising and underdelivering.

So my skin is very thin since a few months. And looking at how much time and money I invested in these forums over the last 11 years, it is not really motivating to see all these brands going south.

But I will try to work on my mood...

Best wishes
 
:blush:
I am sorry if that sounded to you too extreme. Obviously I just can't hide, that I am personally very disappointed about the direction the new HB management seems to head for...

I can imagine that the Hasselblad management team are in a difficult position.

  • They've had a rough few years.
  • The Shriro ownership, while keeping things moving, did not provide enough funds for innovation.
  • Current ownership is a VC who'll cut and run much more quickly than a more committed set of owners.
  • R&D is getting more expensive and the competitive edge is getting finer.
  • After 4 years of economic weakness, people, especially professionals, are becoming more careful with their equipment investments.
  • The bottom end of their market is being dragged away by Canon / Nikon.
  • Leica are competing head-on with their S System.
  • They only have one real product line.

In short, the clock is ticking loudly in their ears.

I think that we, as dedicated long-term Hasselblad users, need to cut them some slack and support them through this difficult time. We ought to be singing their glory; not lamenting their potential doom.

For PhotoKina, they clearly weren't ready with any stunning new advances. So, they refreshed the H Series, added a lens or two and leveraged their brand reputation with the Lunar. Given where they were, I'm not sure what else they could do. Hopefully, they've bought enough time to get some real R&D done, so that they keep releasing incremental improvements to the H Series.

Having said all that, I have been using the H4D-50 for about 4 months and it is the best camera I have ever used in my life. The results are stunning. It is an absolute pleasure to use. Even better than my beloved 205FCC...

Hasselblad may succumb to their current crisis but, I suspect that there is enough value in the brand, enough smarts in the their team and just enough loyalty in their customer base to pull them through.

Regards
Peter
 
But if the clock is ticking already, should we not be prepared for every possible scenario with a more flexible forum structure regarding other brands?

It is one thing to name a section here xyz, but the community and the knowledge shall not break apart, just because some might switch to other brands or we all might be forced to switch, if HB stops...

Just food for thoughts...
 
But if the clock is ticking already, should we not be prepared for every possible scenario with a more flexible forum structure regarding other brands?

Maybe. Worth a try.

But, how to avoid just becoming another LL or photo.net?

Call it the "Photographers Committed to Top Quality Equipment" forum.
Or "Photographic Elite".
Or "Wealthy Photographers" (just joking)
Maybe just: "Medium Format Photography"
(How relevant is this term, given the changes driven by digital photography)

Focus the discussion on the high-end brands like Hasselblad, Leica, Phase One. But what about people with D800s. Do we allow that rabble in? :)

Regards
Peter
 
Into the Unknown

As a photographer, one of my proudest moments was humping a full-sized LowePro AW with my entire V-kit + tripod up MT Scenery (almost 50lbs) to get a shot of the ‘Outer Limits’ sea-mount at dawn… I had a dive starting at 9:00am, so I had to jog-up, take the shot and jog-down all in 90 minutes – it had never been done before… And probably stands as a record to this day. I was in much better shape then -- and reckless…

My saddest moment as a photographer was my pilgrimage to the 9th Ave shrine to trade-in my entire V-kit, M-kit and Nikonos-kit (underwater) for a dip into unholy waters. Somehow, I knew I was being seduced by the workflow sirens, but thought my heart would remain pure…

But as time went by, the digital-darkroom seduction was too great and I went to the darkside. I don’t make photos anymore – I take them…

My one loan hope for redemption was my father’s pre-war IIIc, which I kept as relic of the ancient emulsion religion…

Who knows… maybe there will be a pagan rebirth – similar to the audiophile vinyl resurrection...

Until then my IIIc will remain an icon of past glory…

PS. As for the forum usage poll, I’m afraid I have little standing. Maybe you could focus on excellence in film-based photography -- similar to what the vinyl folks accomplished in audio reproduction... you may not know this, but sales of turntables and vinyl records are at a 20-year high. Or maybe a concentration on hybrid photography workflow... don't know... good luck.
 
direction of this site

Medium format photography is a completely different experience and commitment than small format. The issues are the same, whether it is 22mp or 60mp. It is a different way of working, shooting pace, post-processing, and of course shooting situations. Like shooting action or low-light (not) with medium format. There are enough other venues for Nikon D800's. Medium format has many more secrets....like show me one site that has good empirical lens tests standardized between Hasselblad V, H, Phase/Mamiya, GX680, etc. For example, i love the interactive small format lens review comparisons on http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/

That is why I did my tests for my CaptureTek.com rental business, and there are huge differences between brands, lens models, etc. So, from me, a big no to having small format info on this site, no matter what the MP ratings are. We all know that a 36x48mm 22mp sensor image at 100% is a day and night difference with a 100% 22mp Canon 5DIII image at 100% . I am sure that even a 31mp medium format image is better with a greater range of lenses than a 36mp Nikon D800e. But low-light, fast-moving shots, of course, the Nikon will win in terms of "keeper ratio". I recommend to look at what the shortcomings of other forums are (and there are many), there biases, etc, and be complimentary, rather than be redundant and jump on the bandwagon.

Surprisingly, there is still so much misinformation or incorrect assumptions about medium format vs small format, or between brands, that the only people that are qualified to tell you the differences are people that own or extensively use a wide-cross-section of gear from the MF brands, and can create apples-to-apples comparison scenarios. I have not come across any individuals that do not have financial ties to any of the companies or distributors. Yes, it took me a huge amount of money to buy almost every lens in the V, H, Mamiya, and GX680 systems, and compare them head to head at 39mp, but nobody else ever did that, so that is why i did it...heck, who needs a paid off house, and it is so much fun to start with a full mortgage again! Now, I do consulting by the hour to people that need to make those decisions without doing the same very expensive process.
 
Hasselblad-Fan? Yes

Hi to all,

... since the 70th of the last millennium I use HASSELBLAD equipment. Up to '96 analogue. '93 I started with digital photography - the CANON ION 560 - and the HASSELBLAD slept for about 10 years. 2006 I reanimated the "Queen"
prayi27x25.gif
with the CFV 16. That was the best idea.
jaaja15x18.gif
Now I use CFV 50 with my "old horses".
zwink15x18.gif


Regards

Jan Borgers
 
Dirk,

As you know, I have been a long time Hasselblad user. This forum ends to be less professional users and more advanced enthusiasts ... a bit more skewed to the V system for which there is little to no new news, nor will there be IMO.

The current Hasselblad H system is a premier professional tool. Most Professional shooters do not look back longingly to the V system, but instead forward to the modern needs of professional photography. Most (not all) pros understand the differences MFD brings compared to 35mm ... differences that will remain even if 35mm goes to 50 meg.

Photokina offered a warm-over of the H camera with evolutionary improvements that were not very well documented as to the degree of improvement. Plus the addition of a 24mm HCD lens.

"Major" improvements that could have been made were not made. They could have made the H camera a dual shutter camera like my Leica S2. The could have offered a smaller single body-back version of the H camera. etc.

However, any major differences or changes to the H system would be very expensive and not very much in demand by more casual users or even pros in this economy. So, a small segment of the market would become even smaller ... and less profitable.


Hasselblad's answer is to milk the brand-name with an over-priced blingy make-over of the Sony NEX7 which will be outdated before Hasselblad gets the first Lunar out the door.

It is a missed opportunity, and pride will keep the stupid project going forward.

-Marc
 
Hi Marc

I agree to your points. But the question is: What is the best option for this forum going forward to attract old and new users in the future?

I guess it is obvious that we have to head in the direction where our users are heading, otherwise we have a nice forum without users ;)

You had the same tough times like me, when Kyocera quit the Contax product line and with Sony you are afaik in the same boat like me (not beeing happy with current EVF and the lack of Zeiss lenses)

You are using and used basically everything what was to buy out there in MF and 35mm format. And you are active on many different internet sites. So you have a very good feeling what is going on, what is in need, what could be the next "big thing" in forums. So I listen to your and the thoughts of all other users here very carefully...

As far as I can see it at the moment, there are two options:

a) going ahead with a pure medium format forum. Whether that would be "Hassy only" or all MF brands is another question then for later to be discussed or

b) a broader mixed forum with all brands, MF and 35mm, so that the users are not forced to switch forums if they want to talk about other equipment they are using. And in case they leave Hasselblad for other brands, they can still be in the same forum. Similar to our German sister site:

https://www.camera-info.de/index.php

(this is using already the new software by the way)

I do not have any specific preferences for a direction. I just want to make sure, that the community survives.

I do not want to have a second "contaxinfo.com" experience... :eek:

Best wishes
 
Here is the problem Dirk ...

There are many choices for discussing Medium Format ... for not a lot of users relatively speaking.

Each one tends to skew one way or another.

GetDpi has a large MFD base which tends to be Landscape Photography oriented more than most sites. Info for tech camera use with a MFD back is also high there. Because the Phase One backs are well featured for this type of work, the discussions are more about Phase One and those subjects than other types of photography.

There is a MFD Hasselblad site exclusively for Hasselblad digital shooters and lots of Pros are there also. Good trouble shooting advice to be had on that site ... but activity is relatively low.

This Hasselblad site was very strong with more traditional V users and a great source for V information, with some members very experienced regarding different models and exotic accessories. There is a tendency for the info to be traded amongst just a few repeat members.

Photo.net continues to be a broader MF site with a skew towards film photography. All types of MF cameras are discussed.

The over-all issue with MF sites are they become repetitious, unless there is a new angle regarding how to use them as opposed to how they work.

-Marc
 
Hi Marc,

thanks for this overview. This is basically the same impression I got over the last years, comparing different sites.

The problem seems to be, that the MF market is shrinking drastically - even with Hasselblad - and because of this, the ability to increase the traffic on each MF site is shrinking each year.

It seems also, that not many MF shooters show their images here, which I miss the most. I do not know why this is. In other forums of us, image discussions/ sharing is really one of the most used areas.

Looking at the last 3 years at Hasselbladinfo.com, it seems that the V-System alone will not be able to increase the exchange among the users. On the contrary, it decreased. At a certain point, almost everythig was said/written about a camera-lens combination. The search-function does the rest.

Reminds me to Contaxinfo. And this is what I want to avoid.

So I am curious, what kind of ideas come out of this thread.
 
re the survey

Hi everyone,
This is my first post, which I thought I'd write after reading through some of the thoughts of the other members.
I use my Hasselblad for my interiors and architectural work. I did use previously a Nikon, and even if the quality of the recent Nikons & Canons is getting closer to HB, they are - to me - completely different cameras, and to compare them is just plain silly.
For my work, a SLR style camera is just plain uncomfortable and very difficult to use; the view screen is tiny, you get eyestrain in no time (even with the *special* viewfinders) and the lenses all distort horribly. In a word, they're useless for my needs. Yet the thought of taking my Hasselblad and lenses on holiday to photograph the kids or the occasional nice landscape or sunset, rather than my nice, fast, light and responsive Nikon, is equally crazy.
I hope Hasselblad do not try to compete with the new dSLRs. Even if the latest give you 36MP quality, there is still a huge gap to the entry-level Hasselblads as far as quality is concerned. Technologically, dSLR cameras are of course way better, but this is of no interest to me if I still get (much) greater image quality, (much) wider exposure latitude and (much) less distortion with my HB, I'd still use it regardless. Let's hope HB continue to make the machines which give the ultimate image quality, even of they are big, awkward to use, too heavy unless on a sturdy tripod and have only one focus point. They have specialist uses and will only ever apply to the specialist user.
 
Future of Hasselblad

I believe for Hasselblad to continuously miss the untapped market. As good as the H system is in general, it's good to look at the renaissance of the once almost bankrupt Leica brand and their current standing position and growth and perhaps try to imagine the V system in a modern light. First it's the vast number of analogue hasselblads occupying closet space without seeing the light of day due to still the lack of a FF sensor and rather impossible prices of the available "retro" digital backs. It appears that no opportunities are drawn from the brand value which is the main asset of Hasselblad, rather than the market limited H system. To keep the brand going is the reactivation of old stock at lower prices and reintroduction of maybe a still prized swc in a digital issue to excite the marketplace? If Leica can boldly bring a monochromatic camera at a premium cost a number of ideas could be successful at Hasselblad as well. The key thing, again, is to take a full advantage of the brand.
 
This is my first post. I second the ideas of Konrad

An evolution of the 503cw towards an autofocus/focus-confirmation model was the natural progression of the HB line that would keep the existing costumers and add many others; it was not technically impossible. Most probably a true full frame 5.6x5.6 sensor would now exist, expensive but no one would bargain about its price, and HB would have maintained its leadership in the MF market. A joint venture with Fuji could well have been made for those that prefer the Fuji look of their high MTF lenses in 645. Now the LF market turned to be digital MF, there are plenty of small companies expert in pancake and view cameras that would be able and happy to design new bodies to substitute the Flex and Arc (that where always quite odd) under the brand of HB.


For me the H system is a kind of “cheap” system. I have this feeling of 2nd class gear when:
  • I mount my H2D-39 back in my H1 and it is not recognized
  • I realize that the CFH-39 back is not functional in a view camera
  • I mount a film back in the H2D and it is said incompatible
  • I am unable to try my V fitting Dalsa sensor in the H1/2 (neither a P45+ V fit which I do not have but is so important for many typical HB users)
  • I use my 503cw in aggressive environments with the Aptus that I would like to reserve for the studio, and leave home the CFH-39 that I prefer for exterior shots.
These “clever” commercial stratagems are still implemented in the H3 and H4 (that I do not intend to buy). It seems that the target of the HB H line is mainly a specific type of fashion photographers that have reasons to prefer “strait out-of-the-shop” solutions, not the average HB consumer.
This is my opinion. Reverting this commercial trend in a crisis scenario seems difficult.
Eurico
 
I am a big fan of the V- System too. I just love the waistlevel viewfinder. But we have to face the reality that HB is obviously not interested in the V- System anymore.

I think we have to differentiate what the pros nowadays are expecting and what they can spend on their equipment and what private users are able to spend for their equipment.

The days are over where you can get a new HB V-Kit for well below 10 grands. If you want to buy new with some lenses, you are easily at 20 grands or more. This is just too much for a private person.

At the same time, image quality of 35mm fullframe DSLRs increased this year so much, that the difference in IQ in prints up to 50x70 cm is marginal. Especially if you spend only 2.800 for a Nikon D800e.

IMHO this is the main reason why demand for HB camera is decreasing so dramatically. It is no accident that HB was sold again last year and they now try to make money with other stuff.

So difficult times for us. Even more difficult to find a structure in this forum that pleases everybody.

Although the responses in the survey speak already for themselves. 60-70% use already parallel different brands, around 20% want to invest in the future in different brands and around 12-20% will switch brands completely. Numbers are varying from day to day slightly but this is the bullpark.
 
Hasselblad is going to the Moon

I just looked at the Lunar idea Hasselblad came up with. In the 60s and 70s so many photographers made the nude female butt appear like a pear, someone finally told everyone to photograph a fruit in the first place instead. This Lunar is simple lunacy. If as they claim this a recreation and a modern interpretation of the 500 C/M, I am a Martian. Just so you know, I have 8 V cameras, about 14-18 lenses, associated accessories and I am all for technological progress and evident evolution. This however is another...Sony? Yet, one more consumer camera with a premium name and a higher price tag, a camera, everyone will forget about by the end of the 2Q 2014. As someone mentioned again, the winning bit would be with a properly priced 56x56 sensor in form of a back or new construction, a design the market could clearly see as the continuing 500 family legacy. If successful, this could prove a great entryway for more offerings, hopefully interchangeable offerings.
 
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