Medium Format Forum

Register a free account now!

If you are registered, you get access to the members only section, can participate in the buy & sell second hand forum and last but not least you can reserve your preferred username before someone else takes it.

CFV 15 x Lens effect Is it really a problem

Someone mentioned that they would not purchase a CFV because it meant they would not be able to shoot wide angle shots. What about if we did four shots covering the area required and stiched them together in appropraite software. See no reason why this would not work,
anyone tried it? cheers Carl
Actually quite possible with a locked down camera stand with geared side lateral adjustments ... which I just happen to own. Just depends on how much resolution you really need.

On a view camera you can do it by adjusting the standards from one extreme to the other.

Kapture Group makes dual and quad "stitch adapters" for view camera applications of digital backs. Take a look:
Is it possible to download fff files directly from back, as I have missed place my card reader, only allows me to save as tiffs/jpegs or convert to dng, in flexcolour. If it is, how is it done? Cheers

The data coming from all HASSELBLAD backs are 3FR . All . Thats the HASSELBLAD raw format .
These data can only be handeled using FLEXCOLOR .
When using CF card it is then converted to 3fff and from there either to DNG or TIFF format .
Using teathered mode it is directly converted to DNG or TIFF .
"Using teathered mode it is directly converted to DNG or TIFF ."

That's not quite correct.

When shooting tethered, you create a file folder on your desktop ( I leave it there all the time), and that is your 3f thethered shooting destination.

With that folder open in Flexcolor, it acts as your shooting browser. As you shoot, the image adds itself to the browser window. With the corrections window open each new shot appears full screen there also. I use dual screens so they are side-by-side for review.

If you select an image in the Browser window and click on it it will then replace the last image shot and open in the big corrections window. After making any corrections, you click on Modify, and the browser thumbnail will update itself with those corrections.

You can then save that file folder with corrected 3f files, and select only the ones you want to open as tiffs, or you can select all of them and save them to another folder as DNGs.

Stitching only works when you have a mostly stationary scene. If you are dealing with objects in motion, then this becomes more problematic.

I'm a little bit confused, what's the best way to back up files, is it fff or 3fr; fff files sizes are twice the size, so would assume more date is stored. I know the flexcolour software saves the 3fa as compressed raw files, just got me thinking that’s all?

I'm starting a big personal project, were I'm converting all images to dng, but want to keep all originals as well. First lot of the project I saved as 3fa (downloaded from card), second lot are now fff as I downloaded them from back as I lost card reader, (both were shot on CF card)?

When I first started shooting digital (a while back now), I didn't bother saving my raw files, just converted to tiffs, big mistake, which is making me think I should keep fff or 3fa files as well as dng files. That’s my thinking anyway, I'm sure some people will think other wise.

Any advice/comments would be appreciated. Thanks
Paul, a $25. card reader is screwing up your $10,000. digital back?

May I suggest getting another card reader?

When the CF file shows up on your desktop, copy the contents to a separate file on another Hard Drive or Burn a DVD.

Then you can proceed.
Mark What's the card reader doing wrong? The following might be the problem? I don't know if you recall, but I was having a problem with flex colour, with a box popping up asking if I wanted to download on older version of firmware; yourself and a few others suggested downloading the newer version of flexcoulr 4.6.7, as it looked like the problem could be, my CVF back had been updated but software wasn't. This is what I would have thought to and would have done myself straight away, but the software I received with my back (and the desktop icon read as the recent version 4.6.7), so I got hold of Hasselblad, they suggested the same thing, so I down loaded the version and low and behold it worked, also got rid of a few other niggling problems. Though it worth mention in case others had the same problem. If your software reads 4.6.7 it might not well be?
"CFV 1.5 x Lens effect? Is it really a problem?"


Would anyone really want to stich every wide angle shot or have to revert to shooting film?
"Would anyone really want to stich every wide angle shot ..."


" ... or have to revert to shooting film?"

Why not?
Since when is film a filthy word?

Why not shoot "filthy film? The idea of a modular camera system is to keep options open.
"Filthy film is necessary if the shooting outdoors in extreme tempertures. "Filthy film" is
needed if you want an ISO of 800 or more. "Filthy film" is there if you want the look of "filthy film". Filthy B&W film still hasn't been matched by digital capture.

I can see the issue if you are more of a wide angle shooter. I shoot mostly people, and wide angle work is less critical for me. On the reverse side, I like that my Zeiss 100/3.5 is the best 150mm Hasselblad ever had : -)

Would I like a full frame 6X6 CFV back? More than anything I can think of, photographically speaking.
"Why not?
Since when is film a filthy word?"

Marc, I've been using film for 35+ years and have never considered it to be a filthy word. My argument/sorrow is that the CFV as a digital platform is extremely limited.

Why on earth would I want to use differing capture media when using differing focal length lenses?
"Why on earth would I want to use differing capture media when using differing focal length lenses?"

Because no one makes a 6X6 digital back?

So, even if you use a 1.1X, 645 sensor back, you are no longer using a square format camera, so why not just use a 645 camera?

Don't get me wrong, I actually do agree with you. I would prefer a full frame 6X6. I sold my Nikons and went full frame Canon for that very reason.

It's also the reason I went to a 645 system when I did layout the big digital bucks. The HC/35mm & 28mm are good reasons why ... lenses that are more important to me for commercial work.

Other than that, if a person wants to keep their 500 series camera system, and needs true wide angle ability, then the only alternative is the 1.1X, 22 meg 645 sensor and dual mount adapter plate. The price and fussing factor then increases.

I think the CFV is at least a way Hasselblad shooters can get into digital, remain portable without fiddling with cords and such, have a back that looks like the rest of the camera, while getting some extended use from all their gear ... including the 200 cameras, which have been digital orphans until the CFV.
"I think the CFV is at least a way Hasselblad shooters can get into digital, remain portable without fiddling with cords and such, have a back that looks like the rest of the camera, while getting some extended use from all their gear ...including the 200 cameras, which have been digital orphans until the CFV"

Marc, with respect, I'm not interested in a digital back to "get into digital", or because it "looks like the rest of the camera", or for that matter to extend the use of my gear, it would have to be an investment for the future and a solution, rather than an olive branch to the past.
I guess I'm not tracking with you Keith.

"An olive branch to the past" is exactly what the CFV is. Nothing more, nothing less. It just means that the hasselblad 500 and 200 gear you already have can be used to shoot film or digital. No different than the Kodak ProBacks, or any other current 16 meg., square sensor back from Phase One, Leaf, or Sinar ... except this one is dedicated and integrated so it doesn't require a sync cord from lens to back like all the others.

There are myrid other "digital solutions" from Hasselblad and all the other back makers that are investments in the future ... including for cameras not yet available in the general market.
Once you get into one of these systems the "upgrade path" is made smoother to keep working professionals current with available technology.

What specifically were your expectations?
Keith, Marc,
I see the CFV as part of the whole solution. There is NO complete 1 camera/lens solution that address all the needs for all the people. For years we have had a fairly complete solution in the V series system. Each and every piece is designed to make our craft/art easier, better and more interesting. The digital back for the system is not limiting the system but expanding it. It's another tool in my bag.
Stitching is one solution. A fellow photographer friend of mine shoots Canon and when he needs a wide angle shot thats sharp corner to corner he shoots 2,3 and up to 5 shots to get the coverage and stitches them together. This gives him less distortion and a much sharper image than a canon wideangle lens. I can remember shooting my first wedding with my Hasselblad, I needed a wide shot in the church for a double page in the album and I only had an 80mm lens, I shot 2 frames and seamed the print in the middle.
I think we all expect too much from digital as we have become a "Need It Now" world. I think Hasselblad would make a full frame back for the V system but few people could afford it, so what would be the point. Just because you can, should you? A lot of people think that the camera companies are making a pile of gold selling digital equipment, I think they're making money, but not as much as we think.
I beleive that some people are of the beleif that 1 camera can replace everything, that would be like giving a BMW machanic a monkey wrench and a multiblade screwdriver as his complete toolkit. Film & digital are all just tools in the toolbox, once you have them you would not want to do without them but one does not totally replace the other.

Just my nickles worth,
"What specifically were your expectations?"

A square format system with genuine wide angle capability? Perhaps a system built around the square sensor with wider lens options and the necessary software to correct for distortion etc (think 28mm). Some rise and fall movements would be useful. A *genuine system* in keeping with the Hasselblad tradition and continuity of the Hasselblad format rather than a make do, a one off, an olive branch to the past. The CFV may well be dedicated and integrated but it ain't no solution.

The 22MP backs cropped square *are* 16MP backs and the 31/39MP backs are only an answer for those who are working for the advertising industry. What are the rest of us to do, sell up and buy Canons?

Refering to your posting from April the 18th .
Yes Marc , you are right . My answer to the 3FR workflow was not quite correct .
Your description for teathered mode is correct .
This workflow is described in detail in the first edition of VICTOR .
Today I found that most of the contents , if not all , is now available in the net . But it is in german , and I could not find it in english .

I attended a PHOTO COMPETENCE PARTNER road show today ( My dealer is one of these 6 big partners) and I could have a couple of shots with the new H3D31 . Very fast indeed and the images are of outstanding quality . This is a machine for sports and wedding photography .

I got an interesting info which could be of interest for some in this forum .
FlexColor 4.6.7 was available for download , but still had some bugs . Your version should be dated February the 26th 2007 . If it is 4.6.7 but older , you should reinstall FLEXCOLOR with the version dated above.

Also , there will be a much better and more detailed users guide for the CFV and CF backs by the end of May . It will a download PDF .

Next week i am invited to the snap-studios to test the new HY6 . I will be there for shure .
Jurgen, today I started the process to upgraded the good deal H2D/CFH 22 I found on e-bay to a new H3D/31 :)

My reseller is a shrewed man, he brought me the H3D/31 to let me shoot with. The ISO 800 files are astounding !!! The camera is lightening fast. It will become my wedding camera when I get it.

Keith, I fear your desire for a square back is a function of the sensor manufacturers, and has less to do with Hasselblad. Kodak makes the sensors for Phase One and Hasselblad, Dalsa for Leaf and Sinar. None of the sensor makers offer a square sensor that would keep a 6X6 wide angle lens as a wide angle.

Of course it is possible, but whether it makes financial sense is another matter. How much would we really part with for the luxury of a 54X54 square sensor? How much demand would there be? The 645 digital cameras rule the roost right now. A 39 meg near 645 sensor provides mind boggling resolution as it is, as well as true wide angle coverage. The Multishot studio versions go beyond anything imaginable just a few years ago.

Keith, please don't shoot the messanger. It's just the way it is as of now. But you never know with technology. It always seems like it's a maybe : -)

I tend to agree with Franc, the CFV is a nice additional tool in the Hasselblad V series bag.
Marc, I hope that you don't think I'm shooting the messenger here, believe me my argument is not with you.

Actually my argument wasn't exclusively for a full frame square sensor (desirable but not financially viable), but possibly for a system to be designed around the existing sensor and CFV back, with wider lens options and even movements.

Franc, many of the photographers I'm regularly in contact with have used the V system for most of their working lives, but this is in the past, most now use Canon or Nikon DSLRs with a handful using the Hasselblad H series cameras and digital backs or the Mamiya equivalents. Sadly the V series without a *viable* digital option is dead in the water. The reality is that we are living in an age where digital capture is essential for all but a few professional photographers and desirable for most of the enthusiasts.