1600F + Tessar 80mm lens - first impressions

[polypal]

I was reminded that one of my favourite old classics is a pre-WWII Zeiss Ikon Ikonta 6x9 with a Zeiss Lens. It looks like a bomb was dropped on it; but, the 6x9 images are a joy.

It looks like your Ikonta could keep my 1958 500C camera company. That 500C looks as if it has already been in WW III.
It must have been serviced in a bicycleshop, spent time in a most horrible climate, and delivered at least 800.000 pictures judging from the amount of wear.

I treated this camera to a full CLA at the former Hasselblad Service Center in Holland.
Comment from the technician who serviced the 500C:
"This is a nice older gentleman with obvious signs of wear. Nevertheless it is still going strong and is ready to be used anytime"

Paul

 

[simonpg]

Yes these old "war horses" just keep on going. Thank God their makers designed and built them to be a life-long companion!

 

[evanjoe610]

Hi Paul,

I will wait for your reply regarding the price of the lenshood for the 80mm & 135mm.

I attached below a copy of one of your posting regarding Kilfitt lenses adapted for the Hasselblad 1600/1000 bodies.
I notice that you have the 90mmF2.8 Kilfitt. I assume that it uses the Kilhass rear adapter and that the serial number of the lens series is either 219-??? or is it the 243-??? series? I ask because i have the 219-??? series with the Kilhass adapter and the lens could not focus correctly to Infinity. The only way for this to happen, is for me to remove the 39mm rear mount and have a custom flat plate custom made to allow the Kilhass to "screw" on to the rear of the lens. That way, it will allow for Infinity focusing. This of course is based on me placing the lens directly into the mouth of the body for test viewing.

I also have a CZJ 180mm Pre-Set Olympia Sonnar with a removable rear mount in which I can screw in a CZJ 300mm Pre-Set Sonnar. SO the best of two worlds here.


Evan

Hello Simon,

There were several after market lenses for early Hasselblads, Kilfitt being just one of them.
The 90/2.8 is rather well known in Germany I believe.
It was laid out for Macro but can de used as a normal lens as well provided it is stopped down.
The helicoid has an extra Macro facility that allows about 3 inches extra extension.

I will get some pics of it as well as a scan from the sales brochure.
Kilfitt was not a less expensive option for CZ lenses in those days as these Kilfitts cost at least as much.
Besides the 90 mm Makro I also have the 300/4 tele.
The tele is a masterpiece of mechanical engineering as well as an optical wonder.

I understand it is sometimes necessary to use adapters to fit filters.
I try to avoid that because it makes me feel like a plumber.
It also increases the existing chaos in my camera bag.

Paul

To avoid misunderstandings: besides a good butcher and baker
a good plumber can save your live in an emergency.
It is an honorable profession that deserves our respect.

 

[polypal]

Hi Evan,

First of all the good news:
I would like to invite you to membership of the 1600F Users Club.
The FUC is a group of users of pre 500C cameras like the 1600F and the 1000F.
Membership is free. There are no obligations there is no yearly contribution.
It is all about having fun together with these wonderfull old cameras.
Sofar membership consists of Jürgen, Rick, Simon, Ulrik and me.

Now to your question about the Kilfitt lens.
My lens has number 219 0853. I just looked at the mounting of the lens but there is no removable adapter there.
The rear of the lens is machined with the coarse thread necessary to fit the lens to the 1000F camera that I use it with most of the time.
I just checked again and this Makro Lens does reach infinity without a problem.
It seems you have a Makro Kilfitt that was adapted later to be used with a Hasselblad camera.
First time I used this lens I was amazed by the large extension the special helicoid allows. It does not seem to end.

The other Kilfitt beauty is the 300 F4 lens. An excellent piece of mechanical and optical engineering.
This lens has a removable adapter that allows focussing at infinity.
Besides the Kifitts there are some CZ lenses amongst which both versions of the 80 mm Tessar:
The normal Tessar and a special flat version.

I know the Olympia Sonnar you have. This lens was especially designed for the Olympics to allow photography at a distance with slow films under conditions of low lightlevels.
It is a very good lens that certainly deserves the name Olympia.


Now the news that is not so good:

My friendly repairman seems to have problems to get the repro of lenshoods organised.
I will give him some more time. If he is unable to make these hoods there is a good alternative available.
The other maker has already made hoods like the ones we need.
I am sorry it does not move as fast as I would like but the hoods will become available and at a decent price too. That is certain.

I am happy to welcome you at the FUC.
The next meeting will be in Melbourne. Date to be announced.
I am afraid we cannot get free tickets for airline travel this time.
On the other hand drinks are on the house during our stay.

Paul

 

[evanjoe610]

Paul,

Thank you for the warm welcome to the 1600/1000 Users Club. As for entertaining the thought of the next meeting in Australia, that is most mouth watering. Unfortunately, I have to take into account my wife and my 6 year old daughter. Thats a thought to ponder over!

Would it help if I post some pictures here of the lenses I am speaking about? I could sent jpegs or a PDF showing everything. Either one would not be a probelm for me. Beside I could send a photo of a Kodak Series 7 lenshood that I'm currently using on my 80mm Tessar. Let me know if which format you would like me to send and what are the file requirements.


Evan

 

[polypal]

Hi Evan,

Of course you are welcome to post pictures of your lenses etc.
I am most interested to see details of your Kilfitt Makro lens especially
the fitting part to the camera body.
The Kodak lenshood is of interest too.
Sofar my guess is that Kodak hoods seem longer and therefore better suited
to prevent flair.
Hasselblad hoods combine WA and standard focal length meaning for a standard lens they are less efficient.

Post the pics at the forum. If you rather send them to me that is fine too.
I will let you know what email address to use.

I am glad we have you as a new member of the FUC.


Paul

 

[evanjoe610]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the kind offer to allow me to post some of the odd ball lenses that I bought over the years for the Hasselblad 1000F and also that for the Salyut-C.

For now I will gather up just the lenses that will work on the Hasselblad 1000F, no Wolf in Sheep's dressing of the Salyut-C/Kiev88 gathering. That is for another forum that I'm a member of.

I will forward them to you to the email you prefer and allow you to sort them out as to the best photos to post.


I have just (2) 1000F bodies and no 1600F body currently. The 1600F that I handled over the years were in poor condition and it just wasn't worth it at any price!

I would love to see your Kilfitt 90mm and its rear mount. Please let me know if my photos are not good enough to post or to view for detail.

Evan

 

[polypal]

Hi Evan,

The 1600F is a camera that is either in very good condition or much used and impossible to repair.
Worn samples are virtually impossible to bring back to good working condition.

The 1000F on the other hand is a better design that also benefitted from
better choice of material.
The last 1000F I bought last had been stored dismantled in a garden shed for over ten years.
I bought that camera as a parts source for my other 1000F cameras.
Two weeks after I delivered the box with parts my repair man emailed me
he had assembled the camera. Only a couple of small screws had been missing.
It was in very good condition even the Tessar lens could be saved.
That makes a total of three working 1000F cameras in my collection.

I will get some pics of the Makro lens and ist rear mount.
Nice to know what differences there are between your Kilfitt lens and mine.

Paul

 

[simonpg]

Ok. I have finally finished my story about my impressions of the 1600F!!

It is in the "articles" section of my web site (f8vision.com).

I hope it isn't too long or boring! But, my ceaseless use of this gem has given me much food for thought.

Update and corrected link 12.05.2008
My apologies to everyone. This is the correct link to the web page: http://www.f8vision.com/section44680_57548.html

Thanks to Paul for bringing it to my attention.

 

[evanjoe610]

I have attached 2 PDF that I created. There are photos that might be of interested in the many users of the 1600/1000 system. Majority of the lenses shown are 3rd Party lenses adapted for use on the 1600/1000 bodies. Of special interest is the Kilfit 90mmF2.8 Makro Kilar lens. In addition, I have a photo of a Kodak Series 7 lenshood mounted on my 80mm Tessar.

My interested in medium format camera was sparked by my uncle who had the Hasselblad 1000F and 500C. In addition he also had a Rolleiflex 2.8C TLR. I caught the shutterbug from him and waited for him to pass it down to me. Well I waited and waited to the point of impatient and just went out to buy it outright. Needless to say, here i am today with my 1000F system.

Enjoy the photos and the 3rd Party lenses that I bought over the years as they appeared on EBay.

 

[polypal]

Evan,

Welcome to the club!

We are glad to have you here.
You needed a lot of patience to make your wishes come true.

We are glad to have you in the FUC


Paul

 

[evanjoe610]

Paul,

Thank you for the greeting. In the near future I plan to use your repairman to CLA some of my lenses. I 'm currently in search of an replacement 80mm Tessar for the one that I have requiring some glass element replacement.

ANy chance that you can post our 90mm Kilfitt lens for us to observe the differences?

Evan

 

[jotloob]

Evan

A very warm welcome to the vintage HASSELBLAD user club .
I have been looking to your pdfs . Nice old aftermarket gear .
Take care , you can become addicted to these beauties , but , when reading this , you have been warned .:z02_verwarnung:
This beautiful lady might be your next desire . It is a SUPER WIDE from 1957 in excellent optical and functional condition . Best regards Jürgen

 

[evanjoe610]

Hi Jürgen,

Thank you for the warm welcome! As a matter of fact, I did entertain that thought. I looked at several of these Super-Wide and the prices run the range from $1800 to $2450. It all boil down to condition. In the end, I opt for the SWC/M with a C lenses on-T*. I figure that if I used it as my travel camera, I could use it and at the same time, not feel the pinch if it was stolen.

The 16 Mask, Series 63 filters, and the SWC lenshood are items that are fairly scarce in the used market. Once found and properly tuned, the SWC & SWC/M are a joy to use.

 

[polypal]

Jürgen,


You certainly have the most beautiful early cameras.
I have to be content with a few old ones in less sparkling condition.
They make me happy too. Most important they are all in good working order.

Paul

 

[simonpg]

My First Impressions - Hasselblad 1600F + Carl Zeiss Tessar 80mm f2.8 lens.

My sincere apologies to all who were interested in my essay about my first experiences with the "beloved" 1600F, and who tried the faulty link I incorrectly provided. I've tested the link below and it works and is fast to load.

Here is the correct link to the web page:

http://www.f8vision.com/section44680_57548.html

I have not posted the essay here due to its size and number of pictures - don't want to cause speed problems for anyone. I hope you find it interesting.

 

[simonpg]

Jurgen, your Super Wide is MAGNIFICENT!! It looks like a new camera!! I also think your warning to Evan is timely!!

Thanks for posting the picture.

 

[polypal]

Evan,

Here are some pictures of the Kilfitt Makro lens.







The large extension is quite special.




A pair of Tessars, the flat and standard version




Two masks for the early SWC finder.


Your Makro lens has a different rear mounting which makes an adapter necessary.
The SWC masks are not easy to find. Time is a great help if you look for those at a friendly price.

Paul

 

[evanjoe610]

Paul,

Simon, you are right. The 1600/1000 bug is contagious. I have found another Kodak Series 7 lenshood and an additional Zeiss 135mm that will require a front element glass. WOuld anyone have any spare glass elements for the 135mm that they are willing to part with?


If possible, could you take a shot of your Kilfitt 90mm, showing the mount when view from the rear opening.
For what I can see, the difference is that I have the additional rear plate on my Kilfitt. That one plate will have to be removed and a machinist will be needed to help me complete this job of using the Kilfitt to Hasselblad 1600/1000F mount adapter to fit directly onto my Kilfitt. The original plate that you see is the removable portion from the original Exakta 35mm tripod mount. Initially I thought that I if screwed in the Hasselblad adapter, the lens would work on my 1000F. I would much rather achieve Infinity focusing, so that I could use it as portrait lens and also as a macro lens. My lens also extends as your lens does, so the only difference is the rear mount on my Kiflitt. Your rear mount appears to be what my Kilfitt adapter looks like.


Paul, Does your Kiflitt focus to Infinity when mounted on your 1600/1000F bodies? Have you shot with it i Macro mode? How is the overall quality?

The 16 Mask, I have for my SWC/M. After shooting in 6.45 format, I decided to go for the 6 X 6 on my SWC/M. So it sits collecting dust, along with my Series 63 filters.

 

[polypal]

Evan,

I hope you did not pay a lot of money for the 135 mm Sonnar.
Parts for these lenses are hard to find if not impossible to find.
Good to know you have all spares except the front element!
Let's see if we can locate a front lens to make your Sonnar complete.
Is the Kodak hood you have found for the 135 mm lens?

My Kilfitt Makro focuses at infinity without a problem.
I think to convert it you will need to compare dimensions.
Maybe Kilfitt documentation can shed some light on what differences there are between those Makro lenses.

I used the Makro lens several times. Compared to the Tessar it seems to have more contrast and better resolution.
Distortion is low. I did not use it for Macro yet.

Paul