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WAHOO 203FE back from overseas With CFV ability now
- Thread starter fotografz
- Start date
I have the same question. How can Austin be be so definitive and absolute without having a back to inspect or know what the company has up it's sleeve?
For ex&le, here's a mystery ...
The CFV has two sets of four gold Data-Bus contact points. One located in exactly the same place as found on the E-backs.
The other set of four points are located on the opposite side but higher up.
There are no corresponding electronic communication points on a 500 series camera for any of these data-bus contacts.
There are no corresponding electronic communication points on the camera left side of the 203FE where the mystery data-bus is located.
Why would Hasselblad put gold data-bus contacts there if none of the existing V cameras can use them?
What am I missing here?
Those are the physical facts, the purpose for which we can only speculate.
Are there electronic paths in this back as of yet unused?
Could it be a hint of a possible future V camera, and this CFV was "future engineered" to work with it?
Is it a clue of a larger sensor in the same housing for an updated V camera? Perhaps an AF
able camera like the Rollie that uses the new Schneider AF optics?
If none of the above, then why are they there?
Inquiring minds want to know.
For ex&le, here's a mystery ...
The CFV has two sets of four gold Data-Bus contact points. One located in exactly the same place as found on the E-backs.
The other set of four points are located on the opposite side but higher up.
There are no corresponding electronic communication points on a 500 series camera for any of these data-bus contacts.
There are no corresponding electronic communication points on the camera left side of the 203FE where the mystery data-bus is located.
Why would Hasselblad put gold data-bus contacts there if none of the existing V cameras can use them?
What am I missing here?
Those are the physical facts, the purpose for which we can only speculate.
Are there electronic paths in this back as of yet unused?
Could it be a hint of a possible future V camera, and this CFV was "future engineered" to work with it?
Is it a clue of a larger sensor in the same housing for an updated V camera? Perhaps an AF
able camera like the Rollie that uses the new Schneider AF optics?
If none of the above, then why are they there?
Inquiring minds want to know.
blowupster
Member
The upgrade is not free. It cost real $.
For 450$ they could even add a gold data bus on the other side à la "ELD" way.
BTW with CFE lens the exif-data of lens value and speed are transimited to the CFV's generated files ?
For 450$ they could even add a gold data bus on the other side à la "ELD" way.
BTW with CFE lens the exif-data of lens value and speed are transimited to the CFV's generated files ?
So that is what the second set of data-bus contacts are for? The ELD? If so, mystery solved.
I can't recall how the ELD was set up. Anyone with an ELD that can confirm this? There would be data contacts on the left side with the film back off and the camera exposed.
Of course the "upgrade" cost something Isidor. Why would they do it for free?
I can't recall how the ELD was set up. Anyone with an ELD that can confirm this? There would be data contacts on the left side with the film back off and the camera exposed.
Of course the "upgrade" cost something Isidor. Why would they do it for free?
blowupster
Member
Marc,
> Why would they do it for free?
To sell CFV back !
When I baught a 500cxi body I recieved a card to order a free convertion set for tripod.
30 years ago I sent part of gear of my 1600F in Sweden to explain what part is broken. They sent back the complete gear setted lubrificated for free with documentation and certification of the year my body was built.
It's called a "geste commercial" in french.
Of course it helped me to keep Hasselblad in mind later when I had to buy new hardware.
> Why would they do it for free?
To sell CFV back !
When I baught a 500cxi body I recieved a card to order a free convertion set for tripod.
30 years ago I sent part of gear of my 1600F in Sweden to explain what part is broken. They sent back the complete gear setted lubrificated for free with documentation and certification of the year my body was built.
It's called a "geste commercial" in french.
Of course it helped me to keep Hasselblad in mind later when I had to buy new hardware.
Hi Marc,
> I have the same question. How can Austin be be so definitive and > absolute without having a back to inspect or know what the company has > up it's sleeve?
Because I do this stuff for a living and have over 30 years experience in designing digital imaging equipment.
BTW, I didn’t say anything about the back, the back was designed subsequent to the body, obviously, and would have to have been designed to accommodate the design of the body...namely the I2C triggering, plus the ISO reply.
> The other set of four points are located on the opposite side but > higher up. > > There are no corresponding electronic communication points on a 500 > series camera for any of these data-bus contacts. > > There are no corresponding electronic communication points on the > camera left side of the 203FE where the mystery data-bus is located. > > Why would Hasselblad put gold data-bus contacts there if none of the > existing V cameras can use them?
One guess (and this is purely a guess) is they could be for diagnostics.
Does this back use an adapter to mount to the V body, or is it %100 a V series only back?
Regards,
Austin
> I have the same question. How can Austin be be so definitive and > absolute without having a back to inspect or know what the company has > up it's sleeve?
Because I do this stuff for a living and have over 30 years experience in designing digital imaging equipment.
BTW, I didn’t say anything about the back, the back was designed subsequent to the body, obviously, and would have to have been designed to accommodate the design of the body...namely the I2C triggering, plus the ISO reply.
> The other set of four points are located on the opposite side but > higher up. > > There are no corresponding electronic communication points on a 500 > series camera for any of these data-bus contacts. > > There are no corresponding electronic communication points on the > camera left side of the 203FE where the mystery data-bus is located. > > Why would Hasselblad put gold data-bus contacts there if none of the > existing V cameras can use them?
One guess (and this is purely a guess) is they could be for diagnostics.
Does this back use an adapter to mount to the V body, or is it %100 a V series only back?
Regards,
Austin
blowupster
Member
That's the copy of the responce recieved in january from Hasselblad inport in Switzerland:
Q: Can I use the CFV with my Hasselblad 200- series camera?
A: A solution allowing the use of certain V-system cameras from the 200 series with the new CFV digital backs without the use of external cables or connections has been devised.
A permanent modification to the camera itself is required, however. The modification includes an exchange of the main electronic circuitry in order to provide a synchronization signal via the interface contacts. The exterior rubber pad is also replaced as an indication that the camera body has been modified in this manner.
Please note that there are several points to highlight in this regard:
The modification can only be done on the following models: 202, 203 and 205 and no other.
In general, it is NOT to recommend using the f-sync from a 200-camera to trigger exposure at all, since the timing requirement is very loose... AND
There will be no f-sync at all for exposure times shorter the 1/90. With
The modification of the 200-camera, the combination will be VERY nice though. No cords - just expose. Set the exposure time on the camera and the back will follow. The backside is that you will loose the automatic transfer of ISO to the film magazine. But, who needs film...
The modification has to be carried out at Hasselblad in Göteborg, Sweden. No other Hasselblad Authorized Service Center will currently be able to offer this specific modification.
The cost of the modification is set at SFR 425.-, excluding freight
10 working days are required as minimum turn around time for the modification.
Q: Can I use the CFV with my Hasselblad 200- series camera?
A: A solution allowing the use of certain V-system cameras from the 200 series with the new CFV digital backs without the use of external cables or connections has been devised.
A permanent modification to the camera itself is required, however. The modification includes an exchange of the main electronic circuitry in order to provide a synchronization signal via the interface contacts. The exterior rubber pad is also replaced as an indication that the camera body has been modified in this manner.
Please note that there are several points to highlight in this regard:
The modification can only be done on the following models: 202, 203 and 205 and no other.
In general, it is NOT to recommend using the f-sync from a 200-camera to trigger exposure at all, since the timing requirement is very loose... AND
There will be no f-sync at all for exposure times shorter the 1/90. With
The modification of the 200-camera, the combination will be VERY nice though. No cords - just expose. Set the exposure time on the camera and the back will follow. The backside is that you will loose the automatic transfer of ISO to the film magazine. But, who needs film...
The modification has to be carried out at Hasselblad in Göteborg, Sweden. No other Hasselblad Authorized Service Center will currently be able to offer this specific modification.
The cost of the modification is set at SFR 425.-, excluding freight
10 working days are required as minimum turn around time for the modification.
Hi Isidor/Marc,
Those additional contacts Marc says are on the CFV back...and you believe are for the ELD. From what I can tell from the pictures in the ELD manual, it sounds like those could be in the position of the film back gear...as I see no 2nd set of contacts on the back mating surface shown in any pictures in the ELD manual.
Marc, can you check (or post a picture of the back showing those contacts) to see if those contacts coincide with the film advance gear position of a standard film back?
My guess is, the ELD is setup initially the same as the trigger “modification” as the 203 for use with the digital back...IOW, it uses the same lower contacts, not the “other” contacts.
The ELD manual, interestingly enough, does show the E backs in it’s list of available backs, so there is apparently no harm done to the E backs when used with the digital back mod’d cameras.
Regards,
Austin
Those additional contacts Marc says are on the CFV back...and you believe are for the ELD. From what I can tell from the pictures in the ELD manual, it sounds like those could be in the position of the film back gear...as I see no 2nd set of contacts on the back mating surface shown in any pictures in the ELD manual.
Marc, can you check (or post a picture of the back showing those contacts) to see if those contacts coincide with the film advance gear position of a standard film back?
My guess is, the ELD is setup initially the same as the trigger “modification” as the 203 for use with the digital back...IOW, it uses the same lower contacts, not the “other” contacts.
The ELD manual, interestingly enough, does show the E backs in it’s list of available backs, so there is apparently no harm done to the E backs when used with the digital back mod’d cameras.
Regards,
Austin
Hi Q.G.,
> Perhaps. > Maybe they have not hooked up the necessary bits to the 'chip' to > begin with, and would reprogramming the thing not help.
No, I’m %100 certain it could be done as I explained...that is if they had the firmware source code, and could compile it...and if it wasn’t in a mask programmed ROM or some ancient technology like that.
The camera body would be the I2C master. The I2C chip in the lense that transmits the aperture info has one I2C address (and is only read), and the chip for the ISO in the back has another I2C address (and is also only read).
What they could have done IMO in the digital back, is kept the ISO I2C chip at the same address so you could set the ISO in the back, and have it transmitted to the body just as with the film back. In addition, add another I2C chip at another address that implements the trigger.
But, I think I know why they thought they had to do this “hack” trigger the way they did. In order for the 555ELD to use the digital back, they would have had to add an I2C master to the 555ELD...instead of a purely electro-mechanical trigger as they did. BUT...with a little thought, this could have been done using a very small circuit...in fact, one 8 pin chip. After all, the camera has batteries anyway, and it won’t fire without them!
I think I understand a bit more why they did it, but it was still, IMO, a bad implementation and could have been done substantially better. I think you’re right, the mechanical guys did it.
Regards,
Austin
> Perhaps. > Maybe they have not hooked up the necessary bits to the 'chip' to > begin with, and would reprogramming the thing not help.
No, I’m %100 certain it could be done as I explained...that is if they had the firmware source code, and could compile it...and if it wasn’t in a mask programmed ROM or some ancient technology like that.
The camera body would be the I2C master. The I2C chip in the lense that transmits the aperture info has one I2C address (and is only read), and the chip for the ISO in the back has another I2C address (and is also only read).
What they could have done IMO in the digital back, is kept the ISO I2C chip at the same address so you could set the ISO in the back, and have it transmitted to the body just as with the film back. In addition, add another I2C chip at another address that implements the trigger.
But, I think I know why they thought they had to do this “hack” trigger the way they did. In order for the 555ELD to use the digital back, they would have had to add an I2C master to the 555ELD...instead of a purely electro-mechanical trigger as they did. BUT...with a little thought, this could have been done using a very small circuit...in fact, one 8 pin chip. After all, the camera has batteries anyway, and it won’t fire without them!
I think I understand a bit more why they did it, but it was still, IMO, a bad implementation and could have been done substantially better. I think you’re right, the mechanical guys did it.
Regards,
Austin
Hi Q.G./Marc/Isidor,
I downloaded the CFV manual, and that second set of contacts is clear. But, in the 555ELD manual, there is no set of contacts shown that mate with those. Does anyone have a 555ELD...or a brochure that has decent pictures showing the back mating surface?
Regards,
Austin
I downloaded the CFV manual, and that second set of contacts is clear. But, in the 555ELD manual, there is no set of contacts shown that mate with those. Does anyone have a 555ELD...or a brochure that has decent pictures showing the back mating surface?
Regards,
Austin
Hello Austin,
The ELD's contacts do line up.
The contacts on 200-series cameras are on the 'wind' side. On the ELD they are on the opposite side. (See the images in the manuals on the manuals page of 'Hasselblad Historical').
So the E-backs' contacts and the ELD's contacts do not meet, so no fear of a possibly harmful clash.
The 200-series cameras are a mix of electronical and mechanical functional bits (much like the 2000-series cameras were too).
And i think they made the rear Databus in the 200-series do no more than get ISO information, with nothing else 'hooked up'. No link between the controller and the release mechanism, so nothing to reprogram?
The ELD's contacts do line up.
The contacts on 200-series cameras are on the 'wind' side. On the ELD they are on the opposite side. (See the images in the manuals on the manuals page of 'Hasselblad Historical').
So the E-backs' contacts and the ELD's contacts do not meet, so no fear of a possibly harmful clash.
The 200-series cameras are a mix of electronical and mechanical functional bits (much like the 2000-series cameras were too).
And i think they made the rear Databus in the 200-series do no more than get ISO information, with nothing else 'hooked up'. No link between the controller and the release mechanism, so nothing to reprogram?
wbulte
Active Member
Q, Austin,
Does anyone have a picture of the guts of an E filmback?
I would not be surprised if Q's theory is true that the filmback provides nothing more than a voltage divider or somesuch to relay the ISO setting to the camera. Judging from what I found in the back's service manual exploded view there is not much, if any, advanced electronics in there.
That would explain why Goteborg opted for a rather radical surgery on the camera to accomodate the CFV.
Wilko
Does anyone have a picture of the guts of an E filmback?
I would not be surprised if Q's theory is true that the filmback provides nothing more than a voltage divider or somesuch to relay the ISO setting to the camera. Judging from what I found in the back's service manual exploded view there is not much, if any, advanced electronics in there.
That would explain why Goteborg opted for a rather radical surgery on the camera to accomodate the CFV.
Wilko
