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Planet V Hasselbladbs commitment to the V series

Hi Marc,

> None of the MF back makers actually make the sensors, > Kodak and Dalsa do.

More or less true...but it depends on what you mean by "make". What anyone can do (including me, as I've done it) is to spec out a sensor and have these guys make it, if you pay the NRE (Non-Recurring Engineering) charges, which were $60k for the last sensor we did. But, what you don't get is the economy of scale if you are the only one using that particular sensor, as the fabrication costs are substantial...which means the sensor it self will not be cheap.

Regards,

Austin
 
A 42X42 sensor for a second version of the CFV shouldn't increase the price much.
I've "proposed" this size before because a 1.3X crop factor is the maximun for keeping wide angles "wide". For ex&le, a 35mm Rodenstock converts to a 45mm. that's wide enough for most architectural work because of the square, at least in my book. A 40 CF Zeiss converts to 52. Not very wide, but I've done lot of serious wide angle work with a 50mm in full-frame before.
Again, if crop to rectangular it will still remain bigger than a full-frame dslr sensor, justifying this way, the upgrade to MF.
A bonus: Sensor makers could propose this sensor to 645 camera and dback manufacturers. A 645 with this sensor could be used as an all-time WLF camera. A real plus for many photographers.

My concern is economical (my pocket) but at the same time politically correct to this times of echological concern of not just dumping perfectly working cameras because sensor/dback makers decide otherwise or because is just better for their economies. But thing is, if we dump those thousands of perfectly and wonderful medium formats cameras, we are endorsing once more the predation of this planet.
Regards
eduardo
 
But why this intermediate format, Eduardo?
Why not straight on to 48 mm (or larger)?


P.S.

Has anyone managed to log in to the "Manuals" bit of Planet-V?
I get stuck in an infinite loop (MS IE), or get an error message that the page links through in an non-terminating way (Firefox).
 
Forgot to say:
The reduced size of a 37X49 sensor could physically allow for a stationary CFV back with a revolving sensor. I don't have a clue how complex it would be, but I think it's been done before.

Quite possibly, just more wishful thinking from my part. I have resisted for 4 years to sell my V system. If I had the monies, I would be putting my order on a complete Hy6 system. If my 500CM were gone, I possibly be seriously considering a Mamiya ZD. At the price of the ZD back and those lenses is no brainer for a pro like me with low volume quality work to head this way.
So, here I am once more trying to alineate a few stars.
Regards
Eduardo
 
Q.G.:
The sole reasoning of the 42 square was trying to keep an entry fee close to the CFV's. I would kill for a 48X48 sensor.
Best
Eduardo
 
G'Day Eduardo:

Please feel free to say what you think !
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Of course, notes about your comments are being taken, and your "50% discount registered user" offer for the 48x48 will be "lost in the mail".

Seriously though, for me, I welcome your fresh approach and views. "Thinking outside the box" very often brings forward the best solution.

Cheers,

Colin
 
B'dia Colin:
Thanks for your words and your humor.

More support for the square format. A new newsletter called Quadrat, I believe is german for square.
http://www.franke-heidecke.net/

Go to newsletter and then download the english pdf.
Great b&w portraits in square and a new TLR with a reformulated 135 Schneider.

Best
Eduardo
 
Gentlemen:

If we want larger sensors now: each of ue will need a few thousand of our friends to order one with payment and perhaps they would think about it.

Two sources told me that currently V sales are same as they were last year.

Regards:

Gilbert
 
B'Dia to you, Eduardo ! (And G'Day,Mate).

Funny, Eduardo!

Thanks for the link. That's a great e-newsletter at F&H Rollei.

For English: http://www.franke-heidecke.net/files/quadr1-engl.pdf

OK, so maybe we CAN save the forest and do a Forum V e-newsletter, because I can email this to my local Kinko's (24/7 printing shop) and have a bound hardcopy (on recycled paper) in about 4-5 hours. IF I want to print it, that is.

After me. "We want Forum V. When do we want it. Now".
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Cheers,

Colin
z04_Flucht.gif
 
What is "the same as last year" in (more or less) absolute terms? >

Same meaning not more or less. Flat as I was told, or in other terms not down from last year.
 
Najob,

Indeed. Why the intermediate 48 mm format and not go straight on to 56 mm!


Ulrik,

Thanks!
So the problem is in Hasselblad's javascript, and i can stop wondering what i would be doing wrong.


Gilbert,

Did we first order a couple of thousands of CFV backs before Hasselblad decided to give us this thing?
I think they are capable of assessing the market opportunities (or should be), and 'take a risk'.
 
OK, flat is fine, but I was hoping that someone might have an absolute $ value of what HB's revenue is in the V series. On the other hand, this is typically confidential info. But absolute $ are ultimately what will be the decisive factor in management decisions for bringing out new V series digibacks.

Oh well.. reading the tea leaves are we?

Wilko
 
@ Bojan and Q.G.

I believe the 48x48 sensor could be made on the same wafer as the 37x48 sensor .
If you want to produce a bigger sensor , it would require a bigger wafer as well .
The intention is , to get more than one sensor on one wafer and it might be that this is not possible with 56x56 .
 
Well... no. Wafers are in the 8" diameter range these days (some smaller, some larger). Every wafer therefore carries multiple chips aka sensors.

On a rainy day one can go and try to optimally 'floorplan' a wafer of diameter X with sensors of Y millimeter wide and X millimeter high. Quite instructive actually.

Wilko
 
@ Q.G.

I can access and download all manuals working with MAC OSX 10.4.10 . No problems at all .

@ Wilko

If the used wafers are 8" in diameter , my assumption will be wrong .
Its a very rainy day today , as all the last days , and thanks for the hint , I will try a floorplan .
for 48x48 and 56x56 .
happy.gif


Jürgen
 
@ Wilko

happy.gif


Floorplan ready.
Assuming 8" wafers , you could get 5 sensors 56x56 ,only 4 to be on the safe side .
But you could get 7 sensors 48x48 .

So , how many sensors shall I send you ? ? ?
z04_bier01.gif
But only one bavarian beer .
 
Hi Jurgen,

As you found out, the number of sensors you can obtain from a given size wafer varies rather drastically when sensor size varies. The price of a fully processed wafer is typically constant, so not dependent on how many sensors it holds. Each individual sensor of course needs testing, you that cost is added per sensor.

Wilko
 
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