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New to hasselblad

If it's true about the SWC.

The SWC celebrated it's fiftieth birthday last year (if that's not not a meassure of success, i don't know what is), and Hasselblad Sweden reacted surprised to the UK manager's alleged statement, saying (Hasselblad Sweden) that the SWC isn't going away in the foreseeable future. No such plan exists.

Now even though it has managed to stay around for 50 years, times are bad, and "nothing lasts forever" (another statement about the SWC made by Hasselblad Sweden).

So "no plans" vs "nothing lasts forever".
I think for now and tomorrow, the SWC is here to stay.
 
Qnu, Yes I read it in a couple of photo mags. One was from the UK.
If Hasselblad Sweden was surprised (your post), I note that there was no denial regarding the 555ELD. The magazine did say that the date(s) for such discontinuance was to yet to be announced. I wonder if "he" is still the manager!!? My personal feeling (no inside information)is that both these cameras will have disappeared by the end of this year.
With all the jockeying going on in the digital mnarketplace, I foresee the survival of 2 prestige totally manual cameras...the Leica M and the Hasselblad 500 series. Ironically, this is exactly where we wre 40 to 50 years ago!!!!!!!
Colin
 
Colin wrote:

I foresee the survival of 2 prestige totally manual cameras...the Leica M and the Hasselblad 500 series. Ironically, this is exactly where we wre 40 to 50 years ago!!!!!!!

Unless photographers start purchasing new cameras: neither will survive.


Regards:

Gilbert
 
The exact words from Sweden were "[...] the
905SWC will definitely not be discontinued in the near future."
So it's up to when "the near future" will have ceased to be.

The discontinuation of the EL-line is, in my opinion, long overdue.
The 503's add-on winder makes it a motorized camera if and when (and only then) we want it to be.

The "digital interface" of the ELD, though perhaps a brave attempt, is nothing but a failed attempt to find some justification for the fact this dinosaur still exists.

So goodbye EL-line. We'll have fond memories, but you'll not be missed.


The thing today however is indeed if any camera will find people to buy it.
And that certainly does not look good for any MF camera. Not even the "digital" ones.
So it's not unthinkable that not even a "prestige totally manual camera" will survive.
 
Q.G. You are hurting me and my 553 elx feelings -never nice to know that no one will miss you :-(
I would love to se the SWC survive though - in a digital version with rise, shift tilt etc. Ups I have said that before - must be the shock realizing that I am owning a dinosaur that gets me babling on :) cheers Ruben
 
The ELD will be missed sooner than some think. The camera was engineered and built for motor driven work in the studio where thousands of images are made day after day. The 503 motor is an add on to a 501CM body
and if you own one you can feel the torque on the workings of the camera. Time will tell. IMO nothing is built like a EL camera these days.
 
> [Parole Sante!!! ....that means Sacred Words!!! I do the same with my nikon super coolscan 8000ls - purchased on Ebay - and there is no digital body that can offer better emotions. I love the manual way of shooting and especially the fixed-Ev couple you can choose with an Hassy on your hand. Sandro ]
 
Marc,

That ("The camera was engineered and built for motor driven work in the studio where thousands of images are made day after day") exactly is the problem with the EL: not flexible; a large and heavy thing almost imposible to use outside the studio.
The 503 CW does that a lot better.

The EL in effect is also a 500 with add on motor. Just one that is coupled to the camera's moving parts a bit differently ("under the skin", i.e. where we don't see how it is done), and consequently one that can't be taken off.
And yes, the EL might look more robust for not having that "interface" so blatantly obvious as that of the 503 CW.
However, looking at it, i think the 503 CW's winder coupling is in fact more robust than the robust-but-thin intermeshing gears of the EL.

And yes, you can feel the torque applied by the CW winder to the camera's innards. But you can feel that using manual wind too. Never heard of a manual wind camera broken by winding too hard. ;-)
And i have never heard of a 2000/200-series or 503 CW body "motor driven to death" either.

So i'm not convinced that this always-big-and-heavy EL is better, more "heavy duty" than the the winder-will-come-off 503 CW.


Jürgen,

No, its not nice indeed to see a company like Hasselblad in the state it is in now. Poor prospects (though not quite written off yet!)
The thing is indeed like you said: digital is now, and MF has no viable digital option on offer.
Nothing to compete against the 35 mm format based machines with. No format advantage in the MF digital backs, and ridiculously expensive too.

Merging Imacon and Hasselblad, and then just rebranding Imacon items will definitely not be enough to keep Hasselblad afloat. Far from it.

Instead, they should grab the opportunity, now they have control over the marketing of that one thing that could safe Hasselblad's future, and bring down price levels to something people might even want to begin consider. (yes, the entry level back is now at a lowly $9,000. You can get a 16 MP 35 mm based camera for that.
But that's just the back: we do need cameras and lenses to go with those backs too, dont we? Which brings the real "entry level" cost of a 16 MP Hasselblad at about twice what that 35 mm based product costs.
Add in the greater convenience of that 35 mm based product, and no one will even begin considering the MF Digido.

But no... Blinkers are still on in Gothenhagen.
They should have learned their lesson when they discovered that the 200-series wouldn't sell because they were too expensive. But have they even learned that?


Scanning? Yes, great results.
But hands up who isn't annoyed by how long it takes (not even counting post-processing)?

And how often do we use 81 MP files? So hands up again; now everyone not in the least tempted by those nice 35 mm based digital products?
;-)
 
Q.G.
I am not temted by 35 mm based digital products !!
As most of my pictures are used for publishing most scans I do are between minimum 60/70 up to 150 mb in size. This is making me think that if I shoot MF digitally I should always make the picture equal the max size that I would have been able to scan the 6x6 slide - why - because if you only have a digital file and no backup slide you can never go back and recreate the picture if you want it in a better quality for larger use as in center spreads, posters or billboard etc. So it would apply that as with all things in life - less is never good eneugh - always demand the best of your own work and never produce in an inferiuer quality as it will at some time limit you possibilities and limitations sucks!
As you know from posts you have read from me the technical parts on digital is not my strong side so I would not know if it is possible to produce Glass with such a high resoloution that a 35 mm based system with a super 32 mpixel sensor chip could produce better results than the expensive backs - but I have seen shots from canons largest digital sensor compared to shots from 16 mb backs and the backs were the best anytime - I am at the moment doing some edition of shots made by the new and biggest PhaseOne back in maximum ress, and I will still claim that I can produce more fidelity and a better shot on a 6 x 8 slide on rsx II 50 asa film with my Fuji 680 (sorry for naming the F on the hassyforum) and a 4x5 slide will beat the digital hands down and blind folded
Further more and I like pulling this card the digitalis world need to come up with a prober soloutuin to the wideangle problematique - I am not going to shoot architecture with a canon 20-25 mm zoom in order to go digital . no way !
 
Q.G., what you say may be true. I based my comment on the catalog studios we use on a regular basis. According to them they've chewed through one camera after another including a few 503s which they wished would have lasted longer because they are less expensive. Their EL cameras have stayed the course, and in the end were better values for that kind of work.

Ruben, the Canon 1DsMKII is full frame, and produces a 94 meg, 16bit Tiff file with no interpolation. Being full frame, lenses are what they are in terms of focal length. We regularly use the PSCS RAW interpolation to produce superb 150 meg files that are more than enough for major spreads in tabloid sized publications and for billboard reproduction. Any RAW file from any digital camera or MF digital back retains it's original data that can be returned to for reuse in any size or color redirect.

I'm not avocating digital over film, and in fact do both including scanning 6X6 and 6X7 films all the time.
 
Marc
Is the RAW interpolation a better way of interpolation than the way a scanner interpolates ??
If you have to be able to go back to the original RAW file to produce a large image or colour redirect then that RAW file would have had to been shot in maximum size/quality ??
How much larger/smaller is a RAW file compared to a tiff file ??
As mentioned before I have a 553 elx and it works like a horse but compared to my Fuji GX that i have been abusing for 12+ years it is not very tuff -
Do you use the tilt and shift lens from canon together with the 1DsMII ??
Hope that you can tell that digital photo is not my home field.
cheers
Ruben
 
I just cannot see what the "digi-obsession" is all about. Yes, I understand the benefits of 35mm digi for pros doing time demanding work (sports and journo work). But when it come down to not so time sensitive work that demands the best quality possible, surely film systems are alive and well. And for much much much less money one can produce 25MP images from a 35mm neg for any manipulation and transmission.

Clearly Canon's IDs is so good it is taking Canon's top L lenses to their limits - obvious from the number of Leira-R lenses and special adapters being sold to 1DS customers!!.

But in MF, surely the benefits of full digi are even more limited - certainly barely any for amateurs using MF.

For me the Hasselblad V system is one for life. Why migrate to H series and Fujinon optics (ok, you can get adapters for the V lenses - more an advantage for H owners than V owners!)?

Yes, there are some advantages in digital/non-digital H series), but none that even slightly tempt me to make such a move.

And when I even think about what I might be missing, all I have to do is read threads littered with problems people have with software, hardware and chasing Velvia like quality. To me it is like a disease trying to infiltrate my passionate hobby. Gates, his followers and rivals can keep out of my imaging - bad enough having to tollerate their products in the office)!

By the way, the cessation of Hasselblad's 501 is no surprise and really unrelated to digi issues. In fact the 503 was in any other manufacturer's books was more like a replacement / upgrade of the 501.

Well, that's my grumble for the day.
 
Ruben,

High resolution lenses? Is that why they put a "low pass" filter (i.e. a resolution limiting diffuser, a.k.a. soft focus filter. Yes, that's what that thing really is!) in front of the sensor? Hmmm...
;-)

I too scan "full size", producing 230+ MB files. But i don't use that size very often. Most of the time, a smaller file will suffice. And most of the time, a 16 MP 35 mm based digital camera will produce all that's needed...

MF digital backs lack mostly in size. While they produce a bit more MP, they do not produce the format advantage a bigger sensor could/should give.
No MF advantage, these things are, apart from the few extra MP, only larger, more cumbersome, and more expensive.
Since the bulk of published photography can be done using a smaller, cheaper, easier to use 35 mm digital product, MF (digital and (!) film) is losing market in a hurry.
That, and that alone is responsible for the pending demise of companies like Hasselblad. They're just not competitive; offer no incentive to spend the extra money and trouble to go digiital using MF.
And as long as they don't they do not have the faintest chance of competing, staying alive being more (!) expensive, less convenient.

The Imacon merger should have resulted in a new marketing strategy, one that did recognize and acknowledge the fact that MF digital is seriously trailing behind, and consequently one that tried to make up for this.
Instead, the MF digital products still remain disproportionally expensive, and offer very little, if anything at all, to make people want to sink money in them.
It's very simple: bend or break time. Imablad/Hasselcon does not appear to be willing to bend even a tiny bit.
Not good. Not good at all.

Oh, and yes: film is still better than digital. But that isn't going to help firms like Hasselblad in the current market. And it doesn't look like this digital revolution is going to take a turn soon.


Simon,

This "digi-obsession" is about the 'discovery' that for what was once the domain of large format cameras and ditto slides, nowadays a tiny 6 MP 35 mm based digital camera will do.
Imagine what a full-frame 16 MP 35 mm based camera will do... it will be all the tool a modern day photographer needs. No kidding.

It is not just about needing a 'fast' camera; digital's convenience is apparent no matter what you do. (People didn't lug around large format camera's because it was fun. They always were a pain in the rear end, but you knew why you went that 'extra mile'. Nowadays, nobody is asking for that extra bit using large format, or even medium format cameras can give.

Why, when there still are ways to produce more quality, is a bit of a mystery (though the above mentioned convenience will play a large part, coupled to/part of the general down-hill motion consumerism has given civilisation).

The 16 MP Canon is no different from most other digital cameras un that it too has a diffusor in front of the sensor.
Why get high resolution lenses when what the less expensive/less good ones produce is already too much???
Lens resolution is not going to limit the usefullness of digital on medium format. Sensor size, convenience, and price will.

A "disease" digital imaging certainly is not. There are many advantages.
And there are many, many newsgroups and discussion lists devoted to the inherent problems of using film and chemicals. So what's new?
;-)

The discontiunation of the 501 CM is not really unrelated to digi issues. On the conttrary. Digital is taking away the market share, the income, of MF manufactureres. And Hasselblad is no exception.

The 503 is/was not really a replacement of the 501.
The 503-line was an upgrade of the original 500 C(/M). Out of nostalgic reasons, the "original" was not discontinued when the first 503, the 503 CX, appeared, but continued for a while as "Classic".
The 503 CX was replaced by the 503 CXi, adding winder capability (though we did not know that at the time), which in turn was replaced by the 503 CW (adding the larger mirror).

Meanwhile, Hasselblad tried to attract new customers by offering a cheaper (well...) entry level. Part of that entry level was the 501 C and the CB line of lenses. The 501 C was upgraded to 501 CM, probably because it would be too expensive to continue producing two lines of innards (one with "old" mirror, one with GSM). The CB lenses just disappeared. Now the last bit of "entry level", the 501 CM, disappears as well.
Failed attempt.

Failed why? There are several reasons i can think of.
One would have beeen that people decided which body they wanted: the basic 501 C(M) or the 503 CW. The difference in price was not great, the 503 CW offered more...

Another important part of it certainly is that people do not want to buy even entry level Hasselblads. They want to buy digital cameras...
;-)
 
I tend to disagree with some of the statements made in this thread. My first piece of Hasselblad equipment was purchased in October 2004 after I bought a Kodak ProBack plus on the used market for $2500. Up until then I'd been shooting MF film (Pentax 67) and 35mm digital (Kodak 6MP camera). The time spent scanning 6x7 negatives was substantial, with very nice results.

My costs for film and processing were about $2000/yr, making the payback for a used digital back very attractive. I'm now doing 90% of my shooting using a 553ELX and the Kodak back. Since I'm using just a center portion of the Zeiss lenses, resolution, color and contrast are exceptional. It is the best work I've ever done. Not only that, but many times I take off the digital back and shoot the same scene with film. Try that with a Canon 1DS!

Scanned film will give nice 50MP files. Even though my digital shots are only 16MP, they still look "cleaner" since I'm not imaging film grain. I only use film for exceptional shots where I use the full FOV not offered by the digital back (no crop factor).

Hasselblad is caught in a pickle since their mechanical cameras are very expensive to make and the used market is saturated with cameras dumped by wedding photographers moving over to 35mm digital. Weddings are volume operations (400-1000 shots per wedding) not well suited to mechanical MF cameras. The V96C for under $10,000 is a step in the right direction. It still costs $8000 for a 1DS Mk II and in my opinion (for what it's worth), 16MP shot with Zeiss glass is still better than 16MP shot with 35mm lenses. If you shoot interiors that is a different story since full-frame is required for extreme wide angle. But if a high frame rate is not required, there appears to me to be a future for MF digital, especially if the 16MP backs get down to about $8000 and the 22MP backs drop as well.

Since I got started on the cheap (MF digital back, 553ELX and four lenses) for about $6000, I'm pretty satisfied. If I'd had a serious budget ($20,000 and up), the H1D would have been very attractive. The bigger chip does matter in many cases.

Larry
 
Q.G !!
I give up - I will for ever shut my -.- on digital backs/sensor - matters. I simply do not get it and every time I think I got it it turns out to be the other way around - I know what I can expect from film and as I sell most of my work to my own company :) I do not have to force my self into digital backs - I can contionue shooting film as long as they excist with some of all the great lenses and gear I have and live happily ever after - so this is a promise (until next time I make a ass of my self) I will not say a nother digital word "%¤##@'1+++
 
> I am thinking of getting a Kodak 645H back for an H1. Since the > Proback is very similar, can you describe any +/-'s you have found > with it? I saw an older review that stated the color saturation needed > to be "pumped" is PS or a similar program. Have you seen any evidence > of that?
 
I find the colors to be pretty accurate using the default profile. Additional saturation can be obtained by using the Kodak "Custom Looks" supplied with the Photodesk software. The only real minus is that you are limited to ISO 100 (the 645H can go to ISO 400 but there is a noise issue), but this is a limitation on most digital backs unless you want to shell out some serious cash for the P20 or P25.
 
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