vandevantersh
Member
and the batteries are very hard to find."
That sounds like a deal breaker.
Steve
That sounds like a deal breaker.
Steve
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"Cheap" digiback for 500 EL/M?
- Thread starter TwoTon
- Start date
SuprDave89
New Member
Hans!
Thank you so much for getting this forum going. I just received a Hasselblad EL/M handed down from my deceased grandfather. This was his baby and my grandmother entrusted it to me. I'm very interested in getting a digital back, but didn't even know where to start (I'm a newb in the photography world). I was almost discouraged when no one replied to your "Hasselblad Club" thread, but here folks (especially Steve) are very helpful!
This has been a great start for me and I'll be sure to keep checking back here for any updates. Also, if I find any info of interest I'll be posting it here.
Thanks again!
Dave
Thank you so much for getting this forum going. I just received a Hasselblad EL/M handed down from my deceased grandfather. This was his baby and my grandmother entrusted it to me. I'm very interested in getting a digital back, but didn't even know where to start (I'm a newb in the photography world). I was almost discouraged when no one replied to your "Hasselblad Club" thread, but here folks (especially Steve) are very helpful!
This has been a great start for me and I'll be sure to keep checking back here for any updates. Also, if I find any info of interest I'll be posting it here.
Thanks again!
Dave
Hi Dave!
Welcome to the RRW/OW Club! The acronym stands for "Rolls-Royce Without Wheels" and reflects the situation you and me are in: we own one of the finest pieces of hardware in its field, yet can't get it to run without spending a truckload of cash first
I'm also a total n00b in the DSLR world, having bought my first "real" camera (Pentax K10D) a mere six months ago.
My current status on the matter is that after almost two months of Internet and soul searching, I've finally decided on the Hasselblad CFII back. There are two reasons for this: it's supposed to be one of the best - if not THE best - digibacks for the V series, and I live in Taiwan, where ther's a distributor for Hasselblad , but no representative for any third-party maker, which would repairs and maintenance a time-consuming matter.
The only thing I'm not happy with is that, as opposed to Europe or the US, I can neither lease the beast nor pay for it with plastic, so they have to wait a little more until I've scrounged together enough petty cash. Their loss and my gain, I guess, as the prices for HB digibacks are supposed to drop in the following months...and the economy crisis is helping push them over the cliff
People here have been very nice indeed - in fact, of all the seven or so Hassy forums (including a German and a Taiwanese one) where I brought up this topic, this one here has been the most helpful of them all, and I'd like to thank everyone again for their valuable input.
And now, tell us more about your Hassy and your Grandpa!
Cheers,
Hans, Taipei
Welcome to the RRW/OW Club! The acronym stands for "Rolls-Royce Without Wheels" and reflects the situation you and me are in: we own one of the finest pieces of hardware in its field, yet can't get it to run without spending a truckload of cash first
I'm also a total n00b in the DSLR world, having bought my first "real" camera (Pentax K10D) a mere six months ago.
My current status on the matter is that after almost two months of Internet and soul searching, I've finally decided on the Hasselblad CFII back. There are two reasons for this: it's supposed to be one of the best - if not THE best - digibacks for the V series, and I live in Taiwan, where ther's a distributor for Hasselblad , but no representative for any third-party maker, which would repairs and maintenance a time-consuming matter.
The only thing I'm not happy with is that, as opposed to Europe or the US, I can neither lease the beast nor pay for it with plastic, so they have to wait a little more until I've scrounged together enough petty cash. Their loss and my gain, I guess, as the prices for HB digibacks are supposed to drop in the following months...and the economy crisis is helping push them over the cliff
People here have been very nice indeed - in fact, of all the seven or so Hassy forums (including a German and a Taiwanese one) where I brought up this topic, this one here has been the most helpful of them all, and I'd like to thank everyone again for their valuable input.
And now, tell us more about your Hassy and your Grandpa!
Cheers,
Hans, Taipei
newcomerjr
New Member
500c or EL/m -w- Pro Back Plus????
I just got a Pro Back Plus (works a charm on ELD) but want to use it on EL/m or 500c... I have 2 sync cables (which end in a headphone jack) and a Kapture Group cable (for Lg. Format)... also does anyone know if I can tether W/O being on a body?
Thanks for taking the time...
Jeff
I just got a Pro Back Plus (works a charm on ELD) but want to use it on EL/m or 500c... I have 2 sync cables (which end in a headphone jack) and a Kapture Group cable (for Lg. Format)... also does anyone know if I can tether W/O being on a body?
Thanks for taking the time...
Jeff
Without a body? Do you mean on a viewcamera?
newcomerjr
New Member
well, that and off body? It's for an experiment, not regular shooting.
Hi TwoTon,
You may possibly wish to consider also ... having the entire system serviced, (as if it has sat un-used and un-cycled for a long period the shutter speeds & F stops may require some attention)
Its a wonderful start to high quality photography - have you considered trying some film too
Good Luck & welcome to the V system club
Kind Regards,
Richard
You may possibly wish to consider also ... having the entire system serviced, (as if it has sat un-used and un-cycled for a long period the shutter speeds & F stops may require some attention)
Its a wonderful start to high quality photography - have you considered trying some film too
Good Luck & welcome to the V system club
Kind Regards,
Richard
blowupster
Member
I just got a "new" one (Only 576 actuations) today with an ELD.
It makes pictures.
I didn't care about the fact that this back need lens synchro cable to works even with the ELD (?)
I taught the syncro cable was needed only for 500CM use.
I will dig the problem tonight.
grahamdukes
New Member
"cheap" digiback for 500 EL/M
I wonder why one becomes so fond of the Hasselblad V system? I know that in my case I love solid traditional machinery that is built to last forever, whether it be a steam engine, a church organ, an old Rolls-Royce car or a Hasselblad V. Like many thousands of enthusiastic but amateur photgraphers I have used the Hasselblad V system with film for years and feel myself very much let down by the manner in which Hasselblad seems to have abandoned us to cater from now onwards for well-heeled professional purchasers of the H system, preferably with 50 megapixel sensors.
Like many other V-system owners I looked eveywhere for a reasonably priced digital back for my 501, and didn't find it. Eventually I went to the Internet (E-Bay) and found a number of litte-used CFV backs being offered for sale. Last year I bought one, from someone whom I met and decided I could trust, for little more than half the shop price. It is simply superb. I can continue to use my trusty 501 and get excellent digital results. Yes, it is "only" 16 megabytes but that is more than most small-format digital cameras offer. And let's be realistic - very few of use want to produce wall-sized prints or even posters. What is the definitiom offered by your printer? Probably not more than mine - 600 dots per inch. With that, and an A4 sized print on glossy photopaper, you will get a print that is indistinguishable from what a 50-megapixel H-system would give you under similar conditions, and at least as good as you would produce with a decent enlarger from a slow high-definition film in the traditional darkrom. Even when enlarging a fraction of a CFV picture you can go a long way before the definition becomes shaky. Photograph your grandfather and you will be able to count every hair on his chin. All praise to Hasselblad for battling to go to 50 megapixel backs and beyond, as they no doubt will, but in my situation and that of any people like me, the CFV is splendid and just about affordable if you seriously look for a bargain.
Graham Dukes
Oslo, Norway
I wonder why one becomes so fond of the Hasselblad V system? I know that in my case I love solid traditional machinery that is built to last forever, whether it be a steam engine, a church organ, an old Rolls-Royce car or a Hasselblad V. Like many thousands of enthusiastic but amateur photgraphers I have used the Hasselblad V system with film for years and feel myself very much let down by the manner in which Hasselblad seems to have abandoned us to cater from now onwards for well-heeled professional purchasers of the H system, preferably with 50 megapixel sensors.
Like many other V-system owners I looked eveywhere for a reasonably priced digital back for my 501, and didn't find it. Eventually I went to the Internet (E-Bay) and found a number of litte-used CFV backs being offered for sale. Last year I bought one, from someone whom I met and decided I could trust, for little more than half the shop price. It is simply superb. I can continue to use my trusty 501 and get excellent digital results. Yes, it is "only" 16 megabytes but that is more than most small-format digital cameras offer. And let's be realistic - very few of use want to produce wall-sized prints or even posters. What is the definitiom offered by your printer? Probably not more than mine - 600 dots per inch. With that, and an A4 sized print on glossy photopaper, you will get a print that is indistinguishable from what a 50-megapixel H-system would give you under similar conditions, and at least as good as you would produce with a decent enlarger from a slow high-definition film in the traditional darkrom. Even when enlarging a fraction of a CFV picture you can go a long way before the definition becomes shaky. Photograph your grandfather and you will be able to count every hair on his chin. All praise to Hasselblad for battling to go to 50 megapixel backs and beyond, as they no doubt will, but in my situation and that of any people like me, the CFV is splendid and just about affordable if you seriously look for a bargain.
Graham Dukes
Oslo, Norway
TwoTon - Hans, is that you???
Graham Dukes - You know, when I picked up my albeit used Ixpress V96C from the local Hasselblad showroom, the sales guy was going through a little bit more feel-good talk about the product, and he finally ended the monologue of all those positive points about it saying, "But best of all, it's a Hasselblad!" And sure, thinking I have something from Hasselblad did give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
Graham Dukes & Polypal - regarding low MP, although I do not have a CFV myself, but a V96C the resolution and IQ is similar, and although it is like preaching to the choir by posting in this forum - it is just like what my regular large format printer guy says - he sees Nikon, Canon and Fuji files all the time, and he could tell immediately when he opened my TIFFs for the first time that it came from a digital back. Friends of mine said I was wasting money and time buying a 16mp square digital back - cropping to 3:2 format will reduce it to 12mp, therefore in their minds "no better" than a D700 or Canon 5D. Some will say I'm just trying to justify my purchase, but my files say different, and the guy who prints large prints for me agrees with me - there is more detal, resolution, dynamic range and somehow just better pixels in a TIFF from a Hasselblad digital back. If you are already happily printing 20 x 30" prints from your 35mm for APS-C format D-SLR, you should try the same from the CFV. You and others will be impressed.
Jason
Graham Dukes - You know, when I picked up my albeit used Ixpress V96C from the local Hasselblad showroom, the sales guy was going through a little bit more feel-good talk about the product, and he finally ended the monologue of all those positive points about it saying, "But best of all, it's a Hasselblad!" And sure, thinking I have something from Hasselblad did give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
Graham Dukes & Polypal - regarding low MP, although I do not have a CFV myself, but a V96C the resolution and IQ is similar, and although it is like preaching to the choir by posting in this forum - it is just like what my regular large format printer guy says - he sees Nikon, Canon and Fuji files all the time, and he could tell immediately when he opened my TIFFs for the first time that it came from a digital back. Friends of mine said I was wasting money and time buying a 16mp square digital back - cropping to 3:2 format will reduce it to 12mp, therefore in their minds "no better" than a D700 or Canon 5D. Some will say I'm just trying to justify my purchase, but my files say different, and the guy who prints large prints for me agrees with me - there is more detal, resolution, dynamic range and somehow just better pixels in a TIFF from a Hasselblad digital back. If you are already happily printing 20 x 30" prints from your 35mm for APS-C format D-SLR, you should try the same from the CFV. You and others will be impressed.
Jason
polypal
Active Member
Hello Guys,
I am glad to read about supporters of the V system who found a way to go digital with reasonable cost.
I am even more happy to read the results you both get are better than you expected.
No need to go deeper into the MP battle let others do their fair share of that.
Enjoy the quality Hasselblad cameras give for many years to come.
Paul
I am glad to read about supporters of the V system who found a way to go digital with reasonable cost.
I am even more happy to read the results you both get are better than you expected.
No need to go deeper into the MP battle let others do their fair share of that.
Enjoy the quality Hasselblad cameras give for many years to come.
Paul
Phase One
The problem with higher aperture numbers is diffraction:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-diffraction.shtml
best regards
Bruno
The problem with higher aperture numbers is diffraction:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-diffraction.shtml
best regards
Bruno
Pro Back Pluss
I purchased the pro back pluss from ebay for 2400 USD. This is cheap compared with the normal prices. The reason was probably that my set lacked the powersupply, any cables and view finder underlays.
The first thing that happened was that the battery broke. This is a quantum battery 2. Unlike some claims in this thread the replacement battery is very easy to get and its not expensive. Its also very easy to replace in the leather caging. You can get it from DASAGA or other providers.
http://dasaga.com/
The company who sold me the back provided a replacement for me. They paid 20 dollars for it.
BTW I had to buy a new charger for the battery sinse it had american plugs. Its 12 V DC 0.5 A you need.
The other way you can power the pro back pluss is via the fire wire cable.
After some research I got the info about the power supply. this is 24V DC 1.5 A. you need a firewire hub with a normal standard power plug. I bought the powersupply in an el-shop for little money. It works perfect.
I use the back on my 500 cm. For this you need a special cable. This cable lets you connect the back on virtually any V-series camera. This cable you can get from Kapture group. They have them on stock. Its quite expensive but it works very well. Check the cable here
http://www.kapturegroup.com/proback/plus.html
Though Kodak discontinued the back it is still serviced by midwest camera repair
http://www.midwestcamera.com/
Though i in the end didnt use them i was communicating quite a bit with them and they are very helpful and responsive.
One thing to be aware of: never remove the filter. Rather let midwest do this if needed. A small spring will easely brake and ruin the back beyond repair. Check the story elsewere in this thread.
I have only tested the back a little bit and i must say i am very happy with it. Despite its shortcomings like the clumsy battery and only 100 ISO setting, the image quality is very nice. I am not a profesional and am not updated on the latest digital technologies but to my mind its really nice. Especially the colors are very natural. The image comes out of the camera a little blurry but this is the camera setting with default next to no sharpening in the camera. The file is very "responsive" to sharpening and does not create any artefacts when sharpened. I use a little white ballance correction and sharpening in the photoshop raw file processing and then use smart sharpen if needed.
I think there is so much software processing going on indside digital cameras. like the high ISO are to my knowledge mostly software and not features of the sensor. The pro back plus seems to be very "honest" providing the ISO thats best for the sensor and only processing the RAW file very little.
In the end i think the KODAK pro back plus is a priceworthy solution and it works for almost all V series and not only the ELD or 503 cameras, but you need to budget with the kapture group cable.
Here is a test of a brass chandelier detail. the image is 1:1. Its 600x600 pixels cropped out of a 4072x4072 picture.
I purchased the pro back pluss from ebay for 2400 USD. This is cheap compared with the normal prices. The reason was probably that my set lacked the powersupply, any cables and view finder underlays.
The first thing that happened was that the battery broke. This is a quantum battery 2. Unlike some claims in this thread the replacement battery is very easy to get and its not expensive. Its also very easy to replace in the leather caging. You can get it from DASAGA or other providers.
http://dasaga.com/
The company who sold me the back provided a replacement for me. They paid 20 dollars for it.
BTW I had to buy a new charger for the battery sinse it had american plugs. Its 12 V DC 0.5 A you need.
The other way you can power the pro back pluss is via the fire wire cable.
After some research I got the info about the power supply. this is 24V DC 1.5 A. you need a firewire hub with a normal standard power plug. I bought the powersupply in an el-shop for little money. It works perfect.
I use the back on my 500 cm. For this you need a special cable. This cable lets you connect the back on virtually any V-series camera. This cable you can get from Kapture group. They have them on stock. Its quite expensive but it works very well. Check the cable here
http://www.kapturegroup.com/proback/plus.html
Though Kodak discontinued the back it is still serviced by midwest camera repair
http://www.midwestcamera.com/
Though i in the end didnt use them i was communicating quite a bit with them and they are very helpful and responsive.
One thing to be aware of: never remove the filter. Rather let midwest do this if needed. A small spring will easely brake and ruin the back beyond repair. Check the story elsewere in this thread.
I have only tested the back a little bit and i must say i am very happy with it. Despite its shortcomings like the clumsy battery and only 100 ISO setting, the image quality is very nice. I am not a profesional and am not updated on the latest digital technologies but to my mind its really nice. Especially the colors are very natural. The image comes out of the camera a little blurry but this is the camera setting with default next to no sharpening in the camera. The file is very "responsive" to sharpening and does not create any artefacts when sharpened. I use a little white ballance correction and sharpening in the photoshop raw file processing and then use smart sharpen if needed.
I think there is so much software processing going on indside digital cameras. like the high ISO are to my knowledge mostly software and not features of the sensor. The pro back plus seems to be very "honest" providing the ISO thats best for the sensor and only processing the RAW file very little.
In the end i think the KODAK pro back plus is a priceworthy solution and it works for almost all V series and not only the ELD or 503 cameras, but you need to budget with the kapture group cable.
Here is a test of a brass chandelier detail. the image is 1:1. Its 600x600 pixels cropped out of a 4072x4072 picture.
Attachments
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EXIFprobackplusstest.jpg
Perhaps you need to read the posts more carefully ... no one said that the Pro Back or Proback Plus batteries were hard to find ... they are Quantums that are teathered to the back. The batteries that were proprietary, and now very hard to find, are the clip on ones for the Kodak Proback 645C/645M/645H ... as clearly stated in the post I made.
FYI, the Proback and Proback Plus were both 12 bit capture. The CFV/16 meg back is 16 bit capture.
-Marc
pro back plus
Ok, sorry for the mistake and thanks for the correction Marc. Will certainly read more carefully in the future And thanks for info on the difference between the backs.
What do you consider the difference between 12 and 16 bits colour? What is the visual difference? I guess the CFV/16MP is superiour but its also quite more expensive to what i could see. Beyond my limit.
BTW my back came without flash storage. I bought the san disc extreme III and it works fine. With two slots it gives 8 GB of storage.
Ok, sorry for the mistake and thanks for the correction Marc. Will certainly read more carefully in the future
And thanks for info on the difference between the backs.What do you consider the difference between 12 and 16 bits colour? What is the visual difference? I guess the CFV/16MP is superiour but its also quite more expensive to what i could see. Beyond my limit.
BTW my back came without flash storage. I bought the san disc extreme III and it works fine. With two slots it gives 8 GB of storage.
Ok, sorry for the mistake and thanks for the correction Marc. Will certainly read more carefully in the future
What do you consider the difference between 12 and 16 bits colour? What is the visual difference? I guess the CFV/16MP is superiour but its also quite more expensive to what i could see. Beyond my limit.
BTW my back came without flash storage. I bought the san disc extreme III and it works fine. With two slots it gives 8 GB of storage.
Larger color gamut going in with 16 bit over 12 bit to provide more subtile color transitions. Whether that is "superior" depends on what is done with the expanded range of color subtleties in post.
Please let me wax poetic on the subject of the Kodak Pro Backs ...
In its day, the Pro Back rocked the medium format digital back world by setting digital backs free from being tethered to a computer ... and included some features still missing from most all digital backs ... like the combination of tilting back section and dual card slots. The reason for the dual card slots was because at the time CF cards were limited to megabytes not gigabytes ... and the "revolutionary" 1 gig IBM Micro-drive was $500 to $600. !!! I still have a CF pocket vault with 4 pristine 1 gig IBM micro-drives ... $2,000.+ worth of drives back when $2,000. was really a lot of money ... LOL! The proback can be set to shoot a square, or to save storage space, a rectangle in either portrait or landscape orientation.
Let me tell you how well built the Proback really is ... I had one on a 555ELD that I took to shoot a wedding (as an experiment) and managed to pull it over on a tripod that then went down a flight of marble stairs ... slight dent in the chrome of the 555 and zero effect on the Pro Back. I sent it to Kodak and spoke to the head of Kodak Digital who told me that the back was a tank and if it was okay now it would be okay forever because there was nothing to wear out. I suspect Kodak over-built the Pro Backs.
I sincerely believe the Pro Back was actually too successful ... and I also suspect companies like Imacon and Phase-One who bought sensors from Kodak were screaming bloody murder about the competition ... especially when Kodak advanced to the 645 mount versions and jumped the ISO range to 100/400 and eliminated the Quantum battery tether. If Kodak had continued on making digital backs I am sure that backs would be even more advanced than they are now.
Here is a tip if you just shoot square format with the Proback ... the Hasselblad focusing screen with square etched in it made for the CFV-16 Back eliminates the need for screen masks which are not precise and usually have to be removed to shoot with a film back.
It is nice to see that these backs can still be serviced and Quantums can always be replaced or reconditioned. Something to be said about the "fat pixel" 9 micron type sensors.
-Marc
hi
hi guys,
I have just purchased Hassy ELM and lightphase back. The back came only with one sync cable but the manual for lightphase says there should be a second cable for motorized bodies like ELM. Is it possible to shoot without this second cable and if not where can i get this second cable?
hi guys,
I have just purchased Hassy ELM and lightphase back. The back came only with one sync cable but the manual for lightphase says there should be a second cable for motorized bodies like ELM. Is it possible to shoot without this second cable and if not where can i get this second cable?