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Archival Storage for Digital Images

Jurgen, according to the e-film hype, the Gold DVDs are good for 100 years with proper storage, and their CDs for 300 years. They are not inexpensive. It's the form I provide to my clients. I keep everything on stored hard drives and back-ups on another Hard drive. I've seen other DVDs start to de-laminate with-in 5 years.

But I think none of it is like film/silver prints which is proven since we have shots taken during the American Civil war.

I think the best bet is archival prints of the most important work stored using materials from places like Light Impressions.

I actually considered a DeVere digital enlarger to make analog prints from digital files ... until I saw the price : -(
 
Yes, the monthly cost was one of the things making me hesitate. The PC World one would cost over £95 (approx 141 euros or $192) per year. You can buy a lot of GB's for that in terms of hard drives but the security is attractive. I've realized that 50 GB's wouldn't be enough though.
 
Yes, the fact that I can scan my old Perutz slides proves that there is life in the old system yet. I also like that if I mess up or lose a digital file I can always go back to the physical original.
 
I'd forgotten how long Kodachrome 25 took to come back. I think I used Perutz because it was cheap! They scan OK but I have a plug in from Kodak which automatically corrects even their colours!

I began my SLR life with Practicas in about 1967 and used them for years and having all those screw thread lenses available was great... They were fine and eventually I had one of the electronic ones. I don't think that one would have worked as a door stop though...
 
> That sounds about right. "Manufactured" CDs have a 100yr life, but > NOT the ones you record on at home. Different type of media, > different processes, even if they look "similar". DVDs have a > similar (perhaps even shorter) life expectancy...a combination of > the density of the recording, the physical substrates, and > different manufacturing techniques among the different vendors.
 
G'Day:

re: @ Marc: analog (archival) prints from digital files.

I was reading recently of a person printing 8x10 'negatives' on a Epson 3800 (I think it was) from scanned film, and then contact printing.

Has any Forum member done this?

I wonder if A. would the 'negative' print last the 80-100 years Epson boast for paper prints, and B. would the 'negative' be capable of producing contacts for platinum processing or similar.

I know we are talking 'darkroom' for the print processing, but it is 'lightroom' only if the printed 'negatives' will last 80+ yrs, and we just store 'negatives'.

Cheers,

Colin
 
Marc

We have a company here called MONOCHROM .
They deal with most photographic gear (MF + LF) , but also presentation and archiving accessories .
They had a digital enlarger in their last years catalog . The price , please sit down , was 18500.-€ . This year , this enlarger is not in their selling program any more . Guess why .

I have sold most of my darkroom stuff . I have given up darkroom work , as my backbone problems do not allow me , to stand all day .

An advantage of "lightroom" digital work is , and I appreciate that very much , you can repeat your prints at any time and size at the same quality .

But what is the lifetime of your prints ? ? ?
Epson says about a 100 years . We all can only believe this , because at the time we could proof this , our grandchildren will not come to the cemetary and water the flowers of our graves any more . If there are still any .

I have quite a number of old family B/W images here . Dated back to 1890 and 1915 .
If I look at these images , I am always surprised again , with what simple gear (camera + lights) these photographers produced such wonderful images .

These images are kept in a dark box and only shown on christmas , when most of the family members are present . I will keep an eye on these valuable images .

Jürgen
 
G'day Jurgen:

I agree with what you say above. And I have finished with darkroom printing and a dedicated darkroom-room, for many reasons, including environmental and excessive yellow fingernails!

However, I still shoot MF film and process in a tank, normally with ready mixed and 'friendly' chemicals. Like you, I remember when it was also fun to make contact sheets - in fact it was my first dark(bath)room experience. My negatives were 6x9 then, so the print was OK to use and keep. I still enjoy the process. It's the process! So, I think if I can use my Epson and my iMac to print a usable 10x8 inch 'negative' or a 'digitive', I will use a contact frame and then a tray bath to make maybe platinum prints even. Just for the process. Maybe I'll scan them then, and print them 21st century style? Because to ignore the present and future path in photography is folly.

I agree with you, also, about the 'look' of the old family images. There is something mystic if you like, for me, about looking at a print you know was taken with a plate camera, dunked in some 'soup', and then probably left in the contact printing frame in the sun to 'develop'.

You know that the negative is the sheet of music, the printer is the conductor, and the print is the performance. Somebody said that, anyway - I think Ansel Adams?

I guess I am being a flat-earther somewhat - but synthesized music has never done much for me.

Cheers, my friend, and Viel Glück! with the Digi Back.

Colin
 
Colin , mate

As you , I will not give up developing films , but will do only B/W .
Color was always too complicated for me and even more expensive , as getting the films processed .
But I will need an other scanner , as the one I have is good for 4x5 negatives , but not for MF . I am thinking of the new MICROTEK ARTIX SCAN M1 . I can not afford a HASSELBLAD X1 .
I have no trouble archiving my negatives , using similar techniques as posted here , but have trouble getting them organized properly the digital way .

The old images I was talking about , are all on black cardboard with the engraved studio name on the lower left or right . It is just great to look at them . Ok. They are about a 100 years old and most of them are still in extreme good condition . The guy must have used a very fresh fixing bath .
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BTW , you have inserted a nice picture of yourself .

I do not expect my Digi Back to return within the next 3 weeks . But . . . . . . .
my freezer is full with films .
How did Marc say ? ? ? Stay with film and get a decent scanner .
I will do that in parallel.

Cheers . Jürgen
 
G'Day again, Jurgen:

That picture is of me about 100 years ago, too. But I still have the hat!! I put it up, so that if I get into a 'pissing' match with someone in the Forum, they'll see what I looked like about 20 years ago.
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And they'll have to show their face so I know what they looked like 20 years ago (if they are 20 yet). Too easy to be anonymous! By the way, that is a scan from a Canon Demi half frame 35mm - an SOB to scan, and get to 8x8. :)

Yes, I only do BW at the house - which means for XP2 I get the negs processed outside. Haven't got the fine temp. controls now, and the Jobo CPE is gone! BW is easy, though. I was/am a follower of the late Barry Thornton's chemicals see http://www.monochromephotography.com/ (Nice galleries). Barry was compared at times to Ansel Adams for his printing skills. He died in his hotel room after conducting a seminar a few years back. Very sad. I had already decided to go to the UK for his next classrooms and been in touch with him. His books are great - The 'Edge of Darkness' and 'Elements of Transition'. He was an expert with the SL66E. An oldie but a very goodie!

Hey, I wish I had a big digiback too, but it would be 'over the top' for what I do right now. When some nice designer lady asks me for 4 or 6 20x20s BW in 30x36 frames for the nice beach house she is decorating, or an attorney's waiting rooms, I have all I need (except the outside printing). I only print to 13x19 of course - usually 12x12, or 12x16 if cropped.

"Hello, My name is Colin, and I'm addicted to Film."

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Cheers, mate.

Colin
 
I have a couple of thick portfolios stuffed with silver prints from my years of darkroom work.
I have kept my darkroom intact in the hope of one day returning.

I've taken to scanning those silverprints after reading that is how Eliot Porter used digital. The results are better than you can imagine. The images retain the look of film even when printed on an Epson.

I'm using Crane's Museo Silver Rag which has the look, heft and feel of double weight Zone VI Brillant ... so much like a silver print that it's scarey.
 
G'Day Marc:

I'll give that Museo Rag a try out. Sounds good.

Do you scan your silver prints to RGB and then grayscale them again before doing the final sizing, sharpening and printer instructions? Or directly to grayscale, or ... ?

Cheers,

Colin
 
Hi Colin,

I keep all images as RGB, including B&W. I like the option to slightly alter true neutral black ... like adding +3 red and +3 yellow which adds ever so tiny amount of warmth.

There are a number of ways to convert to B&W ... the worst of which is desaturate. The one I use most frequently is the Gradient Map in Photoshop ... which gets it really close instantly ... a bonus when processing hundreds of wedding images ... Image > Adjustments >Gradient Map > select the B&W option.

The new B&W feature in Photoshop CS3 is very good, and acts like a channel mixer.
 
G'Day Marc:

Thanks for that. Yeah, my practice is to scan everything into RGB, change to 16 bits for most work, and then back to 8 bits usually and then move on. (Change to sRGB for web use). I discovered very early on that desaturate was not a good option. I have been using Channels pretty much, but I'll jump on the Gradient Map for a try.

You're scanning prints off a flatbed I presume. To get a decent TIFF file so that you get the original 'look', are you scanning at more than 360? And are you using the original print size?

They just offered me a $99 boxed hardcopy upgrade from CS2 to CS3, so I'll probably do that. The reviews all seem to be OK.

I just thought that scanning old prints may have taken you another PS/printer route to get the quality you mentioned.

Cheers,

Colin
 
I'm scanning the 8X12 silver prints on an Epson V750 Pro Colin. The D-Max isn't bad on this scanner ... at least for this application. Usually do the scan at the same size of the print @ 360 ppi... but if I intend to print it larger, I'll up the ppi ... like 800 ppi for a 16X20.
 
Thanks, Marc.

Yes, I use the V750 - directly into PS, or via Silverfast which has just upgraded again. Somewhat mysterious software, but I'm getting the hang of Silverfast! I will try one this week - I have some prints back to 1961. See what happens. :)
 
Hi Jurgen,
I'm interested that you are considering the Artixscan M1. I am also trying to find information about that as I think it sounds to be just what I want.
It seems to be called the F1 in Europe. At least in the UK anyway. I am having trouble getting any information out of Microtek which is putting me off a bit.
Also, it's too early for any reviews as I don't think it is actually available yet but I am definitely interested in it from what the Microtek web site shows.
John
 
John

I do not have any information , that this scanner is called F1 in Europe .
This is simply because my last information was , that the M1 will be on the US market in October . So I delayed any further curiosity .
I did some searches on the net now , but did not find much about availability and price for Germany . But , yes that scanner seems now to be called F1 .
The technical data I found , at least , are very interesting , and are what I am looking for .
The scanner housing seems to have the same measurements , than the 1800f , so I could easily replace my scanner and would not need additional space .

To get information out of MICROTEK is as difficult as getting information out of HASSELBLAD .
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Regards Jürgen
 
Hi Jurgen,

I'm sorry that I don't seem able to produce an umlaut on my computer.

I did find an English web site quoting a price of £749 (1,106 euros) (annoying, I cannot do a euro sign either) and saying the date for availablity was 17th September.

I have the feeling that the price I originally saw was more like £500.

I still have received no response from Microtek but if I find any more out, I will let you know.

Another "sorry", to all that this is off topic.

Cheers,

John
 
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