Medium Format Forum

Register a free account now!

If you are registered, you get access to the members only section, can participate in the buy & sell second hand forum and last but not least you can reserve your preferred username before someone else takes it.

Will we ever see V series body shells again

Simon,

What do you think the 1000-series of the late 1940s/early 1950s, and every other Hasselblad ever since, has been 'clad' in? (Hint: it's not leather.)
You are a bit late in lamenting the "introduction of plastics to the overall external finish".
wink.gif


True, it isn't made to look like leather. In my opinion, the H-camera would look hideous in a leatherette covering.
And it, after all, is not designed to have a retro-look.
But tastes differ, yes.

But, frankly, i think you should be struck from the Hasselbladian-Register, and be forced to relinquish your Hasselblad equipment, for judging only by the outside.
For not recognizing Hasselblad's true value. Which does indeed not lie in being a 'looker', made to impress other people, but in what's underneath and what that 'underneath' allows you to do.
Now, really...
wink.gif



Digital, i'm afraid has everything to do with the way MF is going. Hasselblad is indeed prove of that too.
You can't plan to have a MF digital camera and be succesfull, when the market is running with 35 mm based digital products, which (to allmost all intents and purposes) are every bit as (no, not good) usefull, and cost a fraction of what the MF-Digido costs.
Unless, of course, the management makes plans to dump their MF product line and get busy in the 35 mm based digital segment too (Carver Meade's thingy?)


Shriro, as mentioned before, entered the picture after (!) the decision to make H-system cameras.

What Hasselblad and Shriro did was very sensible. They did not drive people away (you can still (!!!) buy V-system goodies), but people flocked to other things. Other things that are mostly not MF, certainly not non-digital, traditional MF.
Away from Hasselblad, not because they didn't like the new products, but away from Hasselblad because they did no longer like the old products.
It's the H-system that managed to keep Hasselblad (V-system and all) alive.

So do not think that the H-System led to "defection".

Shriro also recognized that (as Marc said) Hasselblad was completey at the mercy of what digital back makers were doing, or would do. So they bough one of those digital back makers, to regain some control over Hasselblad's fate.
Sadly, the fear that makers of digital products will completely turn away from MF (the fear that made the Imacon purchase a necessity) is not unfounded. They will do so because we, the market, are not really looking for MF digital 'solutions'. So even with Imacon on board...

The rapid H1 to H2 evolution is inspired by Imacon: they want H1 buyers to be bound to Imacon products. So while the H1D still offered the possibility to attach film backs, the H2D doesn't. The integration between camera and back has increased too. A next step will be that no H-camera will work without Imacon back attached.


The remarkable 200-series cameras, were that, but suffered three flaws.
Noone bought them.
The automation inside is geared towards film photography.
Their focal plane shutter makes using digital backs a pain in the posterior, unless you reduce the camera to a 500-series camera by mounting leaf shutter lenses.
I'm really not surprised that they were the first victims of the Digido, the first to go.


Anyway,
One thing keeps returning: you (and others) seem to think that it is Hasselblad who made the decisions, Hasselblad who dictates what we should be offered.
They wish...

It is not.
We, the people buying photographic products (the 'market') did, and do.
Photographers showing disinterest in MF products, not spending money on what Hasselblad (and others) had to offer, are responsible for both the demise of the V-System and the relative success of the H-System.
Companies like Hasselblad, Bronica, Rollei, Mamiya, Pentax are trying to come up with an response to our disinterest. A response that might prolong their live, a bit.
 
"Their focal plane shutter makes using digital backs a pain in the posterior,"

Actually, not exactly true. Leaf shutters are the a pain in the ass because you have to sync the lens with the back. Both the Mamiya 645 and Contax 645 are focal plane shutter cameras, and operate without aux. cords and whatnot, just like any DSLR. It would have been relatively easy to adapt a digital back to the 200 series cameras given the Data Bus contacts were already in place. I think the reason it wasn't pursued is because there simply aren't enough of them to be worth it ... AND the focus had clearly shifted to 645.

There may be disinterest in digital backs among the advanced hobbiest, but it is of critical interest to Professionals who MUST migrate to digital for economic reasons (clients just do not want to pay $50 a scan for every photo used on top of film and processing expenses. The last film job I contracted out last year was $2,500. in film and processing alone ... and that was for 35mm !!! )
 
So with Hasselblad's V-System, both leaf shutters (need a synch cord running to the back) and focal plane shutters (need a synch cord running to the back, and only work at shutterspeeds of 1/90 or slower) are a pain in the posterior.
wink.gif
 
So how is it possible to shoot with a V system connected to a digitalback and at the same time wanting to sync with an external flash setup? ( and If i want to avoid using a remote trigger).
 
Tobias,

It's possible to trigger any number of devices using the same synch socket.
You just need multiple connectors.

To protect each device against what other devices may send through the synch contact, a wireless system is helpfull. And so is knowing about polarities, voltages, and using diodes to control the direction of flow.

Anyway, not a problem. The cords that come with digibacks that are to be triggered through a cord have a separate flash connector too.
 
Marc, I have no doubt that the H1 is very robust and capable if not the market leading "auto-everything" MF camera. When I got to play with one it did excite me; but for my MF shooting I prefer most things to be manual - suits my personal style/use.

I must agree with you about the 503 TTL flash being so reliable. I especially like the D40's light - superb and such a good match to the other Hassy attributes. BUT, such a shame it is so (IMHO) under-powered. One day i hope to afford a Quantum unit which I read offers similar light and way more power. The D40 often annoys me when it limits me to about f5.6.

My EOS 1vHS has also got a wonderfully reliable TTL (E-TTL) flash function with the EX units (and I often use a StoFen diffuser).

I heartilly agree with your comment that "practice makes perfect". No matter what they build into cameras today; one must understand the technical nuances behind these to use them well and consistently like you say. For me I must take out the time to really focus on flash compensation techniques so that it becomes second nature.

Of course: "different horses for diffenent courses" applies to all things. For me in 135 format aperture priority auto-exposure is very desirable. In MF, not so desirable and funnilly enough I can street shoot with my 503CW happily all manual. The only real add-on benefit I have found was with the CW winder I just recently acquired - now I'm quicker.

In 135 format SLR shooting AF is a must for me, which is consistent with the things I use it for and how I need to use it. Interestingly what I like about the 1v is that its myriad of "auto-everything" functions are not in my face and never distract me - well done Canon!

But my preferred 135 format shooting is with a rangefinder camera - hence my Leica M7. I fell in love with what seemed to me at the time to be an "old fashioned" if not out-dated concept; then I borrowed an M6 and fell in love - I got to understand the concept. BUT, AE was preferred if not a must to suit how I use it - hence the M7.

At that time I gave serious consideration to the seemingly excellent Contax G2 - but I realised that AF somewhat defeated the RF purpose. I felt that such an "auto-everything" capability (so well done by Contax) was really the domain of 135 format SLRs. Maybe that explains why the G2 was not as successful as it deserved to be. Like Leica say in their promotional material: "simplicity allows you to focus your mind on creativity". Different horses for different courses!
 
Sorry, but incorrect. Focal Plane cameras do not need sync cords to the digital back.

Also, multi sync connectors are not necessary. Each digital back has it's own sync port.
 
Richard, WOW! That Morgan must be like sex! A 4 or +8? Do you regularly inspect and tighten up the timber chassis? It must be the Leica M3 of automobiles! I always remember Peter Sellers driving his own Morgan Three Wheeler in the movie The Party - now there's a Morgan!
 
QG, of course you make a very good point about finishes and the subjectivity of their appeal. Yes leatherette would be hiddeous on an H1. However, that was not my point
happy.gif
My reference was more general. Hasselblad/Fuji released a totally new camera in the XPan and a truly modern one at that (despite it being a film camera). But there is no plastic outer shell - all metal (with a rubberised add-on grip). So, back to my question in the beginning - why no such "quality" finishing treatment to the extreior of the H1/H2?

And touche QG; now I am to be excommunicated
happy.gif
! - but my references were only about pleasing ME! I bought my XPan II because of what it can do and can allow me to do with it. The Hasselblad name was secondary, but gave me some added confidence. My initial resistance was to some aspects of its specifications; but these were overcome by USING one and I then fell in love. Had it included plastic, I still would have bought it but I would have felt some degree of disappointment that the manufacturer did not have that level of "pride" in the way it presented its fine product. But, that was not the case.

So, as I have said many times earlier, knowing the H1 and H2 to be extremely high quality products in every performance respect; I have some sense of disappointment they did not finally finish the product to the same standard.

In then end I don't feel I actually "lost the plot" by saying something quite stupid like "I'd never buy one since they put plastic on it". The object of this thread was to lament how some of these finishing touches "fall way" today.

QG I totally agree with your respect for how Hasselblad and Shriro have "move forward". Digital capture is a wonderful thing; so too is film. Both can co-exist although the reality is that film will become a niche media. Hasslblad is commercially wise to have a dual media focus and one that is so heavilly weighted towards digital capture - move where the growth is!

And yes, you correctly point out the role of customers in setting manufacturers' direction - the decision makers that matter. But manufacturers can still retain some of the "nice touches" that also aid their quality differentiation - perceptions they create.


So, I still wonder (and may die wondering) why no similar finishing touches to the H1 and H2 that Hasselblad and Fuji gave to the XPan?

Now think about this: will Hasselblad release a "yellow" H2 like that fantastic yellow 503 I think Marc posted an image of some time ago! Wow! Ooops... I think QG's right, it's subjective and may not appeal to H2 buyers as much!
happy.gif
 
Marc,

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful comments. I am very appreciative of the thought that you put into your advice.

1) Have purchased the magnifier 2) Will be tracking down a Brightscreen. Not always easy in the antipodes 3) I am going to properly adjust the diopteric correction as you suggest. 4) Use my tripod more ;)

Thank you once again.
 
HI Simon
This this thread is really starting to wander a bit. My Morgan is a Plus 4 which is 2 litre. The chassis is anodised steel and the ash components do not really need any special tightening. It creaks a bit every now and then!It is an intersting thought as to the best camera analogy. Certainly there are a number of classic cameras that fit the bill and an M3 is up there! Its just that Leicas are so discrete and very quiet! I really do see my Hassy as a classic and just enjoy it for what it is and does.

(Maybe the H2 is a Morgan Aero8. Big BMW engine muscular and powerfull but not that pretty!!)

Regards
Richard
 
Does anyone out there know why hasselblad made the 503cx
body? i bought one ages ago and then found out it doesnt take the winder, what a miss, now i have to invest in a 503cw as well. is there anyway of getting around this problem?
 
The vehicle my Hasselblad likes to ride in most of all is our Volvo SUV. It wags it's strap like a puppy every time I mention it.

It may be a "Swedish love thing" between two well made machines. It has real wood and real leather. Even the steering wheel is real wood. And the passenger cage underneath is a strong alloy even Mercedes and BMW avoids due to cost. Kind of like the 503CW ; -)
 
There is (or there was) an aftermarket winder for older Hasselblad 500-series models. Search for APCAM . IMHO better buy a 500 EL-series camera if the winder and budget are important for you. E.g. the 500 ELX has a motor drive, TTL flash sensor and the bigger mirror (your 503 cx does not have the latter) and prices are down for this model secondhand.

Ulrik
 
Guten tag Ulrik: What an interesting suggestion. I too was wondering about replacing the CX model with one that can accommodate a winder. I had not thought about the ELX. Is the ELX comfortable to use? Can you give us some idea of the weight versus the CXi or the CW with the winder? Indeed, do you find either of the 500 series cameras plus the motor winder very heavy ( heavy being, obviously, a term relative to the user! )?

Schoene Gruesse aus Florida,
 
Dr.Elliot Puritz
Lets assume a 503CW (almost as 503CX in weight) with a CFE80mm and a A12 magazine + the CW winder , you will hold approx. 1950 gr in your hands (without batteries)
Now a 555ELD with CFE80mm and magazine A12 has approx. 2100 gr. (without batteries) That is not very much difference . The difference of course is the handling . I think that a 555ELD or any other 5xx motor camera is brilliant in the studio , where you work from a tripod . But the 503CW (503CXi) with the winder attached is brilliant , when you have to be mobile . I work with both cameras and never take my 500ELM into the field. I hope this helps .
happy.gif
 
Tobias,

Hasselblad made the 503 CX body to give us the benefit of TTL-OTF flash metering.
That camera appeared before the winder was 'on the drawing board'.

That, however, was before the 503 CW was conceived. So the first camera they adapted to take the winder is the 503 CXi (note the "i"!).

Marc,

Some focal plane shutter camera - back combinations do indeed need a synch cord. Some do not.
You can, for instance, put digital backs behind a 2000 FC, but it will not work without a link between shutter and back, and the only way to create such a link is through a synch cable.

Simon,

I am a complete pain in the behind, i know...
wink.gif

You complain about the plastic on the H-cameras' outside (are you sure it's not paint on metal?
wink.gif
), pointing towards the metal exterior of the X-Pan, but lament the fact that the H-System things do not have a V-System shell.
And V-System shells are covered in plastic...
wink.gif
 
Maybe Simon has found a NASA-converted V-series? They had metal instead of leatherette ;-)

Heck, that would be my top collector camera.

Wilko
 
Wilko
I think , there is no need to laugh about a members emotions .
Only when we take everybodies contribution serious , our own contribution will be taken serious .
 
Back
Top