V System digital preferences

[simonpg]

Now, I know this is not a Hasselblad question, nor is it really a V series question. BUT, it is a question best answered by Hasselblad V series users - pasionate about quality!

As Jurgen well knows, I am finally making my first move/s into digital imaging. For me, the logical start is to replace my Canon EOS 1vHS with a digital body - for "machine-gun" type of shooting best done by 35mm SLRs. Now I can't justify the use of film and its added processing and scanning costs. That is the easy decision. My serious shooting wil remain Hasselblad film cameras.

Secondly, this is where your views will help: I also want to add a point-and-shoot style digi-cam / range finder type of body profile. I love my Leica M7 and will never part with it. An M8 is out of the question and in fact may be a bit bulky for my planned use. But I like what I call the "range-finder profile", which Canon offers in the G10.

Preferably I'd like some sort of viewfinder and some manual controls.

But the idea of "microscopic sensor'" sends shivers down my spine!! BUT I AM MINDFUL OF THE SAYING "HORSES FOR COURSES", so maybe a compact digi-cam with a microscopic sensor is just a necessary evil - my pix from such a camera would never be more than say 6x9 or so anyway.

So after all that here is my question: WHAT COMPACT DIGI-CAM DO YOU FELLOW HASSELBLAD V SERIES USERS OWN AND HOW HAPPY ARE YOU WITH IT?

 

[cs_foto]

i got a ricoh GR juts by chance and I love it, it's great, extremely sharp lens, minimun distortion, good response, sexy lookin with the viewfinder and hood

only thing is, in colour it's really awful, but the black and white jpgs are beautiful... basically is useless in colour.. also useless raw format. it takes almost 15 seconds between shots if you using raw.. so, funny enough in this digital age, i have a digital camera that i can only use in black and white... the jpg engine does magic to those images.. so i cant be bothered to shoot colour and then convert to bw in a third party application.. it will never be the same...

printed a 10x8 the other day, with a jpg straight out of the camera, can't remember the iso but it was high (400-800) and the print looked as good if not better than one made on a 35mm digital slr

have a look here
http://www.gr-digital.com/

click on 'a variety of accesories to expand.....' on the bottom right and have a look at how the camera looks with all the accesories.. -cool page by the way

 

[cs_foto]

just in case, it has a fixed 28mm lens equivalent.... with optional wide angle converter to 21mm equivalent..

i have that wide angle thing also, but can't tell about its quality as i haven't used it yet...

 

[wbulte]

hah...

I still use my 2001-era Kodak DC3400. 2MP. Just works, and nice skin tones. And, added bonus, it draws its power from 4 AA cells.

Wilko

 

[polypal]

It is not a compact digicam but a nice Pentax K200D DSLR that gained my confidence for a number of reasons.

One: Pentax is a decent and well known maker of quality equipment since decades.

Two: The K200D happens to have a number of features that I like very much.
A large display to check images and select camera settings.
In addition to that an extra LCD screen on top of the camera to check actual camera settings.
Power by AA batteries.

Only negative thing is the poorly designed bottom end with a wobbly nut for tripod connection.
Even a fast coupling adapter plate does not alter this.





K 200D fitted with adapter and CZ 120 S-Planar

 

[simonpg]

Thanks CS. Yes the GR has a great legacy - beautifully manufactured with excellent ergonomics. I would buy one in a second, BUT a fixed lens (non interchangeable) compact doesn't suit my use needs. And if I had no choice, my preferred fixed lens is 40 or 50mm equivalent. The accessories are cool like you say.

I did look at the rest of the Ricoh range because the GR (digital and film) is so good, but alas reviews have not matched that expectation.

Very interesting comment Wilko. Your comment about AA batteries reminded me of the Canon Powershot range - similar design like mini cross-over cameras half way between mini-SLR and mini-rangefinder cameras. I'll have a look at them because if I remember correctly they have been spared the massive "over-crowding" of pixels Canon and others have pushed lately.

What a wonderful looking device your Pentax and CZ lens is Paul! I have a CZ adapter for my Canon 1vHS, which is fun to use. But my DSLR choice must be a Canon since I have a significent investment in L series lenses and other accessories. Because my 35mm SLR and likewise my new DSLR shooting is very much "convenience", telephoto, fast action type photography a "mid-range DSLR" (read not precision, detailed and serious shooting that benefits from MF film) will suit my needs perfectly - 50D.

Also as my pancreas deteriorates and my ability to drag around heavy gear is reduced by pain management drugs, I need to plan ahead and cease using a top end Canon bullet proof SLR (in my opinion the 1V is the best SLR ever made - so good that the 1D and 1Ds DSLRs use the same bodies) - weight in the hands now matters.

I know a couple of keen shooters who have Pentax DSLRs and they rave about the image quality.

And then any truly serious shooting I do with the V series gear or Leica M when size is an issue.

I'll be interested to see what Jurgen and Marc think. Maybe Marc's "compact" digi-cam is his M8!!

Thanks for helping.

 

[jotloob]

Simon

I know , the questions you put up , produce a lot of questions in return .

To start from the very beginning :

What do you want to shoot with the digital camera and what image quality do you expect ? ? ?
What is the maximum money you will be able to invest into the "unknown" device .
Do you want to have a digital camera with interchangeble lenses ? ? ?
Do you insist on AF ? ? ? (not available for cameras using adapters and other lenses , than the ones , designed for the desired model)
Are there any lenses already available , you would like to use ? ? ?
Then the camera should be able to use adapters ! ! !
Would you like to have a DSLR ? ? ?
Should the camera have a full frame sensor (24x36)
Could it also be a CFV for your existing HASSELBLAD V-SYSTEM GEAR ? ? ?

If you want to get rid of film processing cost and expensive scanning cost , but still want a compareable image quality like in MF , then you should think about going digital in MF or at least FF DSLR .

From my own experience , I would like to let you know the following .
The digital world changes very fast , new models are released almost as soon as you have taken your bought model home :angry: and a wrong buy can happen very easy , which then also can mean a loss of money .

Therefore , I suggest you "design a raster" with all the questions , (there might even be many more) and then you get much nearer to the desired "digibox" .

I am shure , you will land somewhere between a cellphone digi and a HASSELBLAD H3DII-50 . Sorry . Just joking .

Regards and take care . The digi devel is watching you .

Jürgen

 

[jotloob]

Simon

ADDITIONAL to getting a digital device , there are other costs , you should think about .

You then want to have an image processing program . For example PSelements or higher or others .
The next is , you shurely want to to see what you shot . Right , a printer .
Not too small but also not for 50x50 inches .
Then comes the ink and the paper .
You see , there are many more steps into digital .
I shurely forgot some other things , but the forum will supplement this .

WELCOME IN THE DIGITAL AND ALSO STILL FILM WORLD .

Jürgen

 

[vandevantersh]

Simon

ADDITIONAL to getting a digital device , there are other costs , you should think about .
**********
You forgot the 8 core Mac Pro with 16 gig RAM and 30" display

Steve

 

[wbulte]

Simon

ADDITIONAL to getting a digital device , there are other costs , you should think about .
**********
You forgot the 8 core Mac Pro with 16 gig RAM and 30" display

Steve

A bigger house, a good insurance and a couple of vicious guard dogs also come in handy.

 

[Victorh]

Costs for digital is like the cost of fuel.
Nobody cares unless there is too little of it.

 

[wbulte]

Costs for digital is like the cost of fuel.
Nobody cares unless there is too little of it.

Hm, I recently heared the following interesting note with regards to fuel:

As long as that stuff is still around we better use it! <followed by the sound of a V8 getting started>

 

[vandevantersh]

"A bigger house, a good insurance and a couple of vicious guard dogs also come in handy."
*******
Vicious dogs are too much trouble...a nice .45 ACP works just as well.

 

[fotografz]

Hi Simon.

My thoughts on smaller cameras is fairly simple ... either it is or it isn't.

It is small ... it isn't good. It is for fun and goofing around, it isn't serious.

Now the caveat to all that is that there are those who can do wonders with pocket sized digital cameras. I have a pal who uses a Sigma DP1 and the images are ... well unexpectedly good. But you could hand him anything with a lens on it and it'd be unexpectedly good.

I have a Leica P&S from a few years ago, but now would select the 14 meg FOVEON X3 sensor Sigma DP2 for this type of camera ... the sensor is physically much larger than common P&S cameras and it uses a lens with glass molded Aspherical elements rather than plastic ... 12 times larger sensor than the little digitals according to Sigma, and 7 times larger than in conventional 1" to 1.8" compact cameras. The sensor is 20.7mm X 13.8mm. like those in some DSLRs.

Check out the spec's and photos on their web site:

http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP2/main.html

Oh, and yes, the M8 is my personal "small" camera. I rarely use the Leica P&S except when going to dinner while on vacation ... or to a show where cameras are allowed.

 

[wbulte]

"A bigger house, a good insurance and a couple of vicious guard dogs also come in handy."
*******
Vicious dogs are too much trouble...a nice .45 ACP works just as well.

Very true. I can even shoot reasonably accurate with a pistol (I recently went to a shooting range to try )

But HMS government in my home country provides free lodging for up to 4 years for unlicensed guns. And licenses are unlikely to be granted.

Wilko

 

[simonpg]

G'day guys! Good God, this poor Aussie bloke is about to put his toes in the digital pot of water..... ah, maybe....... maybe a pot of sulphuric acid!! And now he is getting more and more spooked!!

Yes guys, every new step into areas of photography end up infecting us with some degree of excessive compulsive disorder.

God, when I bought my first Hasselblad 6x6 when MF prices went into their first melt-down due to the digi-revolution and I said to myself: "the body, back and 1 lens will be all I need for very special picture taking!"

Then from my first role of slide film, it became my preferred kit - always grab it when going off to shoot anything!!!!! So, then the disease began..................................Hey do any of you think we actually might NOT BE MEMBERS OF A PHOTOGRAPHY FORUM? IT IS POSSIBLE WE ARE MEMBERS OF HPA..............the Hasselblad Photographers Anonymous!
The AA of photography!

From then it was very easy to justify the next 2 lenses (180mm and 50mm FLE).... a sensible idea of a 3 lens kit like so many others do!

Gee but then I really needed some reach and the 250mm was a steal - the digi-revolution was biting even deeper!

Oh, did I mention that there was an uncomfortable gap between 80mm and 180mm and of course the Makro-Planar was a perfect fit and offered the great benefit of being optimised for close focusing.

Hell, this digi-revolution is causing much pain among owners of little used gear, so a few more backs will be useful, won't they!!

Mmmm, sometimes the 180mm is a bit heavy out in the field and the 150mm is so versatile....... Gosh there is a bloke selling his new 503CW for a song...... that TTL flash feature is so handy....... Mmmmmm..... 60mm is such a beautiful look and much lighter than the 50mm FLE....... And then there is..........

Confessions of a Hasselblad NUT! BUT I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT I USE EVERY SINGLE ITEM IN MY KIT REGULARLY!

So, why the confession? Well It just felt appropriate!

Many thanks Jurgen, your questions make a good check list. Yes, I have very specific purposes in mind - the right horse for the course is a must.

Funnily now that I think of it, I have never bought one item I ever regretted, and each kit is used and suits the intended purpose well still today. BUT, your advice reminds me that I am stepping into new territory, so need to be very clear about what/why I am looking for.

Yes Steve the Mac is on my list - I've done the research and have an order placed.

I have used PS Elements for years now and it does everything I need. But I believe the new version will not be released in Mac format. It seems iPhoto 2009 (soon to be released) is a killer, so I'll just wait and see as it is also bundled with the new Mac. And then there is Aperture. My software needs will still be minor image adjustments and RAW file conversion.

So, yes guys your humour does highlight the caution, that entry into the digi-world does involve real commitment - financial commitments!!

And, in place of the viscious guard dogs, I can save the money by just relying on my 19 year old cat!

 

[simonpg]

Many thanks Marc. The Sigma is an excellent suggestion - it's relatively large sensor is very much preferable to the "pin-head" sensors in mini-digi-cams. This was similar to Jurgen's earlier suggestion that I look at the Panasonic G1 because of its significantly larger 4/3rds sensor.

I had no idea that Sigma had released a 2nd version of the DP. The DP1 had too wide an angle lens for my liking. Most of all, my MOST FAVOURITE prime lens focal length is actually 40mm (I had a Rollei 35SE which wore a 40mm lens). In fact I tried out the Voigtlander LTM 40mm lens (classic and standard versions) which I thought produce beautiful images and I loved working with 40mm. My most used Leica M lenses are the 35mm and the 50mm and 40mm obviously fits beautifully between them.

So a fixed lens compact does not worry me so long as it is not wide angle.

I looked at the superb on-line brochure and the specs seem great. BUT, I suspect I picked up a FALSE/MISTAKEN claim by Sigma. They say the 41mm (135 format equivalent angle of view) offers a benefit over other very wide angle P&S lenses of 28mm and wider - ability to control Depth Of Field and achieve blurred background separation not possible with very wide angle lenses (a nice idea of course). BUT, they are making reference to the 135 format equivalent to the actual focal length, and the actual lens on the DP2 is 24 or 28mm. It is only the "cropped" sensor that gives it an equivalent angle of view of 41mm - a 24 or 28mm lens is still a 24 or 28mm lens regardless of what angle of view the sensor size causes!!

Therefore, there will not be the easy ability to use DOF to create "separation" of the subject! Do you agree?

However, back to the camera. I will try one out. I mentioned to Jurgen, that I intend to buy an SD card and go try a few cameras and bring the files home and have a close look at them to make my decision.

Finally, my purpose for the "compact" digi-cam is for total convenience shooting - when a camera kit is inappropriate, such as evenings with friends, a bit of street shooting while out doing other things, travel when I can't carry a kit etc.. Image enlargement size would never really be more than 8x10 or so.

I really would like to avoid a miniature-digi-sensor camera and this is why the G1 interested me so much, although my preference is for a slim profile camera like the Canon G10, Sigma and Ricoh GR.

 

[wbulte]

...

However, back to the camera. I will try one out. I mentioned to Jurgen, that I intend to buy an SD card and go try a few cameras and bring the files home and have a close look at them to make my decision.
...

Finally, my purpose for the "compact" digi-cam is for total convenience shooting - when a camera kit is inappropriate, such as evenings with friends, a bit of street shooting while out doing other things, travel when I can't carry a kit etc.. Image enlargement size would never really be more than 8x10 or so.

Trying a couple is the only way of finding which ones you like.

I am not sure if the functionality is available in digicams (as opposed to DSLRs) but I have grown to love the in-body image stabilisation that my father's Pentax K10D DSLR offers. Really neat and useful feature.

Wilko

 

[polypal]

I am not sure if the functionality is available in digicams (as opposed to DSLRs) but I have grown to love the in-body image stabilisation that my father's Pentax K10D DSLR offers. Really neat and useful feature.

Wilko

Hello Simon,

Not even the most expensive H series body offers image stabilisation for Carl Zeiss lenses.
I use the K200D, a low cost version of the K20D, and can tell you IS works wonders for handheld shots.
Shutter speeds can be at least 2 till max 4 times slower with relatively long lenses and still produce good results.

I would skip the Mickey Mouse digicam and go for a decent DSLR.
The Pentax K200D is available from about 600 USD with the standard 18-55 zoom.
That lens sells for pocket money but will surprise you with the results.
If you are prepared to take a deeper plunge there is a fabulous 16-50/2.8 zoom from Pentax.
Not only faster over the complete range but also more wide angle.
The 16 mm setting is what 24 mm is for 35 mm cameras.
Get yourself an adapter for CZ lenses and you will have the time of your life for next to nothing.

Paul

 

[wbulte]

Hello Simon,

Not even the most expensive H series body offers image stabilisation for Carl Zeiss lenses.
I use the K200D, a low cost version of the K20D, and can tell you IS works wonders for handheld shots.
Shutter speeds can be at least 2 till max 4 times slower with relatively long lenses and still produce good results.

I would skip the Mickey Mouse digicam and go for a decent DSLR.
The Pentax K200D is available from about 600 USD with the standard 18-55 zoom.
That lens sells for pocket money but will surprise you with the results.
If you are prepared to take a deeper plunge there is a fabulous 16-50/2.8 zoom from Pentax.
Not only faster over the complete range but also more wide angle.
The 16 mm setting is what 24 mm is for 35 mm cameras.
Get yourself an adapter for CZ lenses and you will have the time of your life for next to nothing.

Paul

Our K10D has the 16-45mm zoom by the way. A bit more wide angle, which I happen to like. It is not a 2.8 (unfortunately), these are substantially more $$.

Oh, and lets not forget: every K-bajonet lens ever produced will work on the Pentax DSLR. The more modern lenses have more automation (like open lens metering, autofocus etc) but even my 1976 1.7/50mm works like a charm. Very neat.

Wilko