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Too much choice.

T

TJV

Member
I'm sitting in my kitchen with an old Hasselblad catalogue from seems to be about 1998 - back when the 501cm and 503cw were made in tandem with the 555eld, 203fe and 205fcc. In the last few days I passed on a beautiful 500cm kit because I decided I really needed to do my homework and see what the differences between all the V series are before spending my money. It seems now that the only V series camera still in production is the 503cw. It's a real bummer!

Anyway, from my reading it seems that the 501cm is perhaps the best bet for me. They came standard with bright screen, it has the (I think) GMS like the 503, just doesn't have a few minor things I'd never use.

My question for other forum members follow:

1: Is the 501cm easier to get serviced than a standard 500cm? ie, are parts still relatively easy to replace through Hasselblad service centers? How do the two cameras compare in this regard?

2: Does the GMS make a big difference? I understand that it only matters with lenses longer than 100mm. I'm usually a 50mm and 80mm man but would buy a blad kit to get into more macro work that I can't do on my rangefinder cameras.

3:I don't think that I could ever afford it, but are the 501cm and 500cm just as useable with a digi back? Do you have to connect a cord between the flash pc socket to the digi back on both cameras? How does this compare to the 503cw?

4: What's the difference between the differenct lenses? CF, CFE etc?

5: Is the V series being killed off? Reading other posts here it seems there is a lot of animosity towards Hasselblad for not developing new lines of backs and accessories compared to the H system. I'm committed to film at this stage but I would be nice to think if I sink a lot of money into a V system I can move with the times when / if I need to.


Thanks for your help.

Tim
 
Choices

The 501CM is the same body as a 503CW it just misses the OTF flash metering (OTF is similar to TTL)
The other thing missing is the use of a winder. The winder can only be used with a 503 CXi and the 503CW bodies.

The sensible choice now is for a camera with GMS.
That system is still in production and it is less depending on regular service than the mirror system used in non GMS bodies.
These non GMS bodies have foamstrips that soften the blow for the mirror.
The foam needs to be replaced after 5-8 years even when the camera is not used during that time.

GMS does not vignet with longer lenses and with macro.

Lenses to go for if budget permits are CF models that started in 1982 or later improved versions like the CFE and CFi.
Read improved as in easier handling. Optically you will have a hard time finding diffrences between images made with these lenses.

Try to find a 50 CF FLE if you are looking for a wide angle lens.
FLE stands for floating elements.
These lenses perform better than non FLE models although these are not bad lenses. Carl Zeiss only makes very good lenses and lenses that are even better.

The V series is not being killed. Hasselblad chose not to develop new gear for these cameras.
Despite that there are more V series cameras being used daily than new H series cameras.
That is not an honest comparison as the V series has been around more than fifty years.
The H series just started and is not even a decade old.

Many of us find that Hasselblad could do more to support users of V series cameras.
After all the V series made the reputation of Hasselblad.
That reputation is still a very important asset the Hasselblad company has.
It helps to market the new H series.

There are several options to go digital with the V series.
The most elegant, that is without any external wiring, is with a CVF digital back.
 
Thanks for your reply.

It seems that the 501cm might be the best camera for me, especially since the parts and service sound easier.

My friend has a beautiful 205tcc kit with the 50mm f2.8 and other focal plane lenses. It's just a lovely camera to use, although I must admit I tend to shy away from electronics. Hers is currently in Sweden for service and repair. She dropped it with the 50mm attached and it is costing $2000US to repair. Almost not worth it but considering she has a complete kit dependent on the focal plane shutter, it would be a crime not to! I think the old mechanical designs would suit me better, if only because I would never use any automation.

Better start saving (or sell off one of my Leicas!)

Tim
 
??

Leicas?
Please explain.
I sure hope you do not mean those funny little cameras that give Mickey Mouse negatives!
 
In the last few days I passed on a beautiful 500cm kit because I decided I really needed to do my homework and see what the differences between all the V series are before spending my money. It seems now that the only V series camera still in production is the 503cw. It's a real bummer!

Anyway, from my reading it seems that the 501cm is perhaps the best bet for me. They came standard with bright screen, it has the (I think) GMS like the 503, just doesn't have a few minor things I'd never use.
***********
One of the minor things that you might use with the 503CW is the ability to mount the winder. I have found the winder quite useful and it stays on the camera most of the time. The price difference between 501cm and 503cw is ~$300-400.
 
I wondered about the winder but think I'll probably want to keep the kit to a minimum. Although I'd probably quite like the Infra red shutter release.

As for the Leica - different tool for a different job. Totally different philosophies apply to each system. Actually, lately I've been shooting much more with a Mamiya 7ii kit which I love. I just want a system camera that I forces me to take more time and is of an SLR design.

On a different note, people here seem to suggest that the CFVii back produces better results than the new high end, 20+ MP SLRs by Canon and Nikon. Does this really prove true? Forgetting high ISO and fast, reportage type shooting, does the bigger square back still hold its own? I'd hope so for the price! Other than keeping older V gear in use, what is the advantage of buying a CFV back these days? It's only recently I started to get interested in digital backs so I'm genuinely interested in your answers.

T
 
TJV said:
As for the Leica - different tool for a different job. Totally different philosophies apply to each system. Actually, lately I've been shooting much more with a Mamiya 7ii kit which I love. I just want a system camera that I forces me to take more time and is of an SLR design.
Click to expand...

I totally agree wrt. the Leica. It is true that in the old days of film only, the image quality of the Hasselblad was so much higher, but so was the weight. Different systems for different uses. I have an M6/M8 setup, as well as my MF stuff, and use the Leica more day-to-day, with MF being for more contemplative photography.

On a different note, people here seem to suggest that the CFVii back produces better results than the new high end, 20+ MP SLRs by Canon and Nikon. Does this really prove true? Forgetting high ISO and fast, reportage type shooting, does the bigger square back still hold its own? I'd hope so for the price! Other than keeping older V gear in use, what is the advantage of buying a CFV back these days? It's only recently I started to get interested in digital backs so I'm genuinely interested in your answers.
Click to expand...

The CFV and similar backs, like the Phase One P20, P20+ and so on, all provide better dynamic range and per-pixel clarity than high-end DSLRs, partly due to larger pixels, partly due to the anti-aliasing filters on DSLRs. The 1Ds3, 5D2, A900 and D3x have higher resolution, but again due to the AA filter, the amount of information in the image may not be higher. Anyway, it should be close. The colours are also typically better on the DBs.

The main disadvantages of a back like the CFV are the sensor size and the resolution. The smaller sensor size means that you have no true wide angle option. Due to the crop factor of 1.5x, the 40 becomes a 60, equivalent to a 35mm or so on the Leica. Beyond that, there is just the SWC or the fisheye. The smaller resolution of the CFV/CFVII compared to other backs on the market is apparently Hasselblad's scheme for getting us all to buy the H.

I still don't understand why Hasselblad thinks that people will buy an entirely new system rather than just switching back manufacturer. There is also the option of a CF back, like the CF-22, but the prices for these appear to be significantly higher than for backs like the Sinar e54LV, which is what I will likely end up with. The Sinar uses user-changeable adapters, so I will use it on my Hasselblad V system, as well as on my Contax 645.
 
Digital MF against top end 35mm based DSLRs

There would be little use in spending all that money if MF digital is not better than 35 mm based DSLR cameras.
In fact some jobs can not be done at all with Canon , Nikon and their likes.

Move to the outer end of digital MF with backs over 30 Mp and you can achieve results that would take 4x5 inch format with film.

Hasselblad offers a chance to start with film and change to digital as soon as funds or circumstances allow or need that.
 
polypal said:
Hasselblad offers a chance to start with film and change to digital as soon as funds or circumstances allow or need that.
Click to expand...

As a corollary, you can start relatively affordably (keeping in mind that this is a Hasselblad forum...) with digital on MF, and move up the scale as the need arises. Refurbished or second-hand 16MP 36x36mm square sensor backs start at around $3,000, 22MP 36x48mm backs come in at around $5,000, and you can go all the way to the full-frame 645 Phase One P65+ at 60MP and $40,000.
 
I can say unequivocally that my 501CM/CFV rig produces the best quality images I have ever shot.
However, the type of V body you buy should depend on the type of photography you plan to do with it. Do you need a winder or motor drive? Do you need TTL/OTF metering for flash? Do you need to hand-hold? Do you need Aperture Priority metering? Would you prefer focal plane shutters to leaf shutters? Etc, etc.
If you can answer "no" to these questions, or can, at least, live without some of the perks, then the 501CM is a great choice, and well worth the difference between a 500CM for the GMS and Acute-Matte screen.
You do not need to use a cable connector with the CFV, but I advise it if you customarily shoot exposures slower than 1/8th second. Without the cable connector, the CFV requires you to "match" shutter speeds on the digital back menu, to that set on the lens, when shooting shutter speeds slower than 1/8th second. If much of your shooting is slower than 1/8th second, it's just easier to use the supplied cable connector, and never have to worry about changing the shutter speed on the digital back.
Good luck,
Michael H. Cothran
 
Link to a useful thread not only about various kinds of digital capture but also about lenses.
I nearly got a Contax body just to be able to use the new Carl Zeiss 120 Macro APO lens.......
 
polypal said:
Link to a useful thread not only about various kinds of digital capture but also about lenses.
I nearly got a Contax body just to be able to use the new Carl Zeiss 120 Macro APO lens.......
Click to expand...

What link?

Also, what are your views on the various other makes of backs out there?
I'm talking about the Phase One p25+ and Leaf Aptus II 6 backs. What are the prices of these two compared to the Hasselblad CVF ii? Are they comparable in quality?
 
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