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Phase One took over Leaf
- Thread starter polypal
- Start date
terrydent
Member
I just finished a complete liquidation of my Rollei 6000 system for fear of this very thing. I was afraid I would be stuck with an orphan with nowhere to get parts or service. It was a great system and I had every Schneider lens available for it. It all fetched some fair prices though. I was pleasantly surprised.
Terry
Terry
pascal
Member
A couple of nuances with this news:
- Leaf was already in difficulty and its relationship with Kodak uneasy.
- Franke & Heidecke is coming very soon to the end of the insolvency procedure. A meeting with the 131 staff is scheduled for 30 June 2009. Only thereafter will there be clarity on its fate. Even if the company goes down, it can start again with a new investor.
- Sinar is the owner of the Hy6 (F&H was producing the camera for Sinar and Leaf). How it will react to all this, is as yet unclear.
- In my view, PhaseOne has taken over a number of assets of Leaf in order to narrow down the number of competitors. It will not immediately offer the AFi but will further sell the Aptus backs. They bought themselves in with Mamiya and do not need another camera body. One could even argue that they bought Leaf in order to make a stab at the Hy6 / AFi camera platform. In reality, however, the Hy6 / AFi is superior to Mamiyas offerings.
I guess we will have to wait until the dust settles. Meanwhile my Rolleiflex will keep making happy snaps.
Pascal
- Leaf was already in difficulty and its relationship with Kodak uneasy.
- Franke & Heidecke is coming very soon to the end of the insolvency procedure. A meeting with the 131 staff is scheduled for 30 June 2009. Only thereafter will there be clarity on its fate. Even if the company goes down, it can start again with a new investor.
- Sinar is the owner of the Hy6 (F&H was producing the camera for Sinar and Leaf). How it will react to all this, is as yet unclear.
- In my view, PhaseOne has taken over a number of assets of Leaf in order to narrow down the number of competitors. It will not immediately offer the AFi but will further sell the Aptus backs. They bought themselves in with Mamiya and do not need another camera body. One could even argue that they bought Leaf in order to make a stab at the Hy6 / AFi camera platform. In reality, however, the Hy6 / AFi is superior to Mamiyas offerings.
I guess we will have to wait until the dust settles. Meanwhile my Rolleiflex will keep making happy snaps.
Pascal
wbulte
Active Member
Well.. The Hy6 would better have advantages, a lot of advantages in fact, over the Mamiya at the price level it is positioned at.
Whatever one might think of Mamiya (I do not have an opinion, never having used 'm) at least they offer MF digital at a price level that is affordable for mere mortals.
Just my € 0,02
Wilko
polypal
Active Member
Comment on the differences between Mamiya bodies and the Hy6 is difficult because there is also a huge price difference.
Even if the Hy6 were a better camera it is not always the better product that wins in the end.
Who is going to buy a system that comes from a bankrupt manufacturer with an uncertain future especially with the kind
of investment involved?
Unless another savior like Mr Kaufmann emerges it will be a dead end for the Hy6.
Even if the Hy6 were a better camera it is not always the better product that wins in the end.
Who is going to buy a system that comes from a bankrupt manufacturer with an uncertain future especially with the kind
of investment involved?
Unless another savior like Mr Kaufmann emerges it will be a dead end for the Hy6.
I'm not really qualified to say seeing as I don't use MF digi, just film, but I am beginning to plan my shift to digi and was looking at the Leaf options because they seem well regarded and engineered. It would be sad to not see any new Leaf backs in the future. With regard to the body, I've never seen or used the Rollei, but the Mamiya bodies I own are very reliable, if not made of a lot of brittle plastic. The Rollei had / has an upgrade path to square format as well, didn't it? That would have been a selling point for me if a large square sensor came out and the lenses etc were already available. It seems now there are really only two real options for systems, not counting Leica's yet unproven S2. If only it was 4x3 ration and not 3x2...
polypal
Active Member
Hy6 bodies were manufactured at the Franke & Heideicke factory in Braunschweig.
A couple of months ago that factory closed its doors due to financial problems.
The owner of the Hy6 design is Jenoptik.
Although seriously affected by the problems in Braunschweig Jenoptik is not actively involved to do something about the situation.
At least there are no reports of any activity from Jenoptik.
The Hy6 was marketed as a Sinar, Leaf or Rollei camera.
A couple of months ago that factory closed its doors due to financial problems.
The owner of the Hy6 design is Jenoptik.
Although seriously affected by the problems in Braunschweig Jenoptik is not actively involved to do something about the situation.
At least there are no reports of any activity from Jenoptik.
The Hy6 was marketed as a Sinar, Leaf or Rollei camera.
pascal
Member
The Hy6 ownership belongs to Sinar, itself a Jenoptik company. Leaf licensed the camera. F&H was manufacturing all cameras (regardless whether they are called Hy6 or AFi) lenses and accessories. F&H is selling the camera as Rolleiflex Hy6 with film back only, while Sinar and Leaf are selling the camera in combination with their digital backs (as Hy6 and AFi respectively). Those that seek more in-depth information on the system can find it on my web pages: http://www.rolleiflexpages.com
As a surprise and notwithstanding the strong demand for its products F&H filed for insolvency on 27 February 2009. Though several important investments had been made it appeared impossible to cope with historic liabilities. Production continued till the end of April 2009. In order to further cut costs, many employees were sent on temporary leave of absence. Sales and servicing/repairs have remained. All 131 employees have been called for a staff meeting on 30 June. It is not impossible that they will receive their letter of resignation and that the company will enter into bankrupcy. If this scenario is confirmed, it would be a sad loss for the long history and experience of Rollei and F&H, for the German camera industry, and for medium format photography in general.
At this moment there is unclarity on the future of the company and its products but there have been talks with several interested investors over the past months and it is somehow expected that the business will be continued, in particular since F&H has been manufacturing the Hy6 and AFi cameras, lenses and accessories for Sinar and Leaf.
However, on 25 June 2009 PhaseOne and senior Leaf management agreed to set up a joint company, Leaf Imaging Ltd, taking over most of the Leaf assets (parent company Kodak had already for some time been looking at options to sell off Leaf). The longer term effects of this new development are as yet unknown, in particular for the owners of Leaf products. While the new company will continue selling Aptus backs, it will not immediately sell the AFi pending further consideration. PhaseOne has bought itself heavily into Mamiya, so there is in reality no need for a second camera line. But it was in particular the combination of the Aptus digital backs with the Hy6 / AFI, which was such a strong combo where the camera body added value to the back. If Leaf were to loose the AFi body, it would surely negatively affect its users.
At the same time, the Hy6 system remains a strong line of business for its owner, Sinar AG, at least in Europe. Summer 2009 should provide more clarity. Let us hope for the best, in the interest of medium format photographers.
Pascal
As a surprise and notwithstanding the strong demand for its products F&H filed for insolvency on 27 February 2009. Though several important investments had been made it appeared impossible to cope with historic liabilities. Production continued till the end of April 2009. In order to further cut costs, many employees were sent on temporary leave of absence. Sales and servicing/repairs have remained. All 131 employees have been called for a staff meeting on 30 June. It is not impossible that they will receive their letter of resignation and that the company will enter into bankrupcy. If this scenario is confirmed, it would be a sad loss for the long history and experience of Rollei and F&H, for the German camera industry, and for medium format photography in general.
At this moment there is unclarity on the future of the company and its products but there have been talks with several interested investors over the past months and it is somehow expected that the business will be continued, in particular since F&H has been manufacturing the Hy6 and AFi cameras, lenses and accessories for Sinar and Leaf.
However, on 25 June 2009 PhaseOne and senior Leaf management agreed to set up a joint company, Leaf Imaging Ltd, taking over most of the Leaf assets (parent company Kodak had already for some time been looking at options to sell off Leaf). The longer term effects of this new development are as yet unknown, in particular for the owners of Leaf products. While the new company will continue selling Aptus backs, it will not immediately sell the AFi pending further consideration. PhaseOne has bought itself heavily into Mamiya, so there is in reality no need for a second camera line. But it was in particular the combination of the Aptus digital backs with the Hy6 / AFI, which was such a strong combo where the camera body added value to the back. If Leaf were to loose the AFi body, it would surely negatively affect its users.
At the same time, the Hy6 system remains a strong line of business for its owner, Sinar AG, at least in Europe. Summer 2009 should provide more clarity. Let us hope for the best, in the interest of medium format photographers.
Pascal
polypal
Active Member
Pascal,
Thanks for more background information on the Rollei and Hy6/AFI situation.
The problems at F&H could not have found a worse moment to become acute.
All MF manufacturers are coping with slower and smaller sales now.
If it were not for the Leica S2 that is expected in a couple of months the new owner of Leica could have been the saviour of F&H.
We can only hope that the curator finds a powerful investor who is able to give F&H a new start.
That new start is not only important for users of older Rollei cameras and users of the Hy6 models.
Lets not forget over 130 employees are about to loose their jobs as well.
It would be a tragedy if F&H with a new profitable model in production is going under due to old debts.
After all the Hy6/AFI is the only other new 6x6 film camera with a range of lenses to choose from besides the Hasselblad 503CW.
Often forgotten but there are more companies that will suffer from a final end for F&H.
I am thinkling of outside suppliers of whom Schneider is an important one.
Carl Zeiss in Oberkochen has reduced the week for those employed in the photo division to 4 days.
There is simply not enough demand for their products to keep the factory open 5 days a week.
Paul
Thanks for more background information on the Rollei and Hy6/AFI situation.
The problems at F&H could not have found a worse moment to become acute.
All MF manufacturers are coping with slower and smaller sales now.
If it were not for the Leica S2 that is expected in a couple of months the new owner of Leica could have been the saviour of F&H.
We can only hope that the curator finds a powerful investor who is able to give F&H a new start.
That new start is not only important for users of older Rollei cameras and users of the Hy6 models.
Lets not forget over 130 employees are about to loose their jobs as well.
It would be a tragedy if F&H with a new profitable model in production is going under due to old debts.
After all the Hy6/AFI is the only other new 6x6 film camera with a range of lenses to choose from besides the Hasselblad 503CW.
Often forgotten but there are more companies that will suffer from a final end for F&H.
I am thinkling of outside suppliers of whom Schneider is an important one.
Carl Zeiss in Oberkochen has reduced the week for those employed in the photo division to 4 days.
There is simply not enough demand for their products to keep the factory open 5 days a week.
Paul
pascal
Member
A sad day. At the staff meeting today, all remaining staff received their notices as from 1 July. Some of the staff's effective termination will take a couple of months, depending on how long they have been employed with the company. They will not be required to do further work with the exception of those dealing with servicing/repairs and outstanding orders.
Now one has to wait for the next chapter (new investor starting from scratch).
Now one has to wait for the next chapter (new investor starting from scratch).
polypal
Active Member
Besides the fact that this is bad news for all members of staff and their families it is also a matter
of great concern that any plans to restart production of the Hy6/AFi camera is taking much time.
Time is not a positive factor in these circumstances.
With staff now officially unemployed part of the know how to produce these cameras may be lost.
That makes the chances for a new future for the Hy6/AFi only smaller.
of great concern that any plans to restart production of the Hy6/AFi camera is taking much time.
Time is not a positive factor in these circumstances.
With staff now officially unemployed part of the know how to produce these cameras may be lost.
That makes the chances for a new future for the Hy6/AFi only smaller.
