flashmxfreak
Member
Please can you explain me difference btw. 150MM F4 CF T* and 150MM F4 CFI T* ?
I would like to buy a portrait lens finally.
Thank you
I would like to buy a portrait lens finally.
Thank you
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Difference btw 150MM F4 CF T and 150 F4 CFI T
- Thread starter flashmxfreak
- Start date
simonpg
Active Member
Well simply put they are optically the same. However the CFi current lenses have a few different features most of which will not produce any imaging difference that the eye can detect except in the most extreme uses.
Probably the most significant issue for some shooters in that the current CFE lenses offer data-bus connection between lens and camera. BUT, the current 150mm you are looking at is a CFi so it does not have data-bus connection anyway.
So, the differences between CF and CFi are:
The barrel and grip design differs - some think this CFi design is nicer. It makes no difference to me.
The internal barrel coating of the CFi lenses is new and said to be more resistant to stray light - enhances contrast. Most pros agree that unless shooting in extremely high key uses, the eye cannot see the image difference.
The CFi lens shutter spring is made of a new high-tech metal thus said to extend the life by many decades - well the CF spring is likely to outlast most of us. I understand that the CFi spring can be retro fitted to a CF lens anyway.
The lens mount is a nice unpainted high-tech metal so never shows wear. No real benefit that I can tell.
The filter bayonet is also made of the nice hign-tech metal - resists the paint wear on the CF lens hood and filter bayonets.
Finally (I think!), the CFi has a X synch cord locking fitting on the lens designed to avoid accidental disconnection. Some CFi users complain that the lock device is plastic and too fragile.
So there is no compelling reason IMHO to buy CFi over CF. There is no optical design difference. The choice comes down to relative value between the 2 as far as your personal budget is concerned.
In my case all my lenses are CF except for the 80mm CFE that came with my camera body. To my pocket CF is much better value for money - I get mint used lenses for much less than nice CFi/CFE versions. My CF 150mm is excellent.
Probably the most significant issue for some shooters in that the current CFE lenses offer data-bus connection between lens and camera. BUT, the current 150mm you are looking at is a CFi so it does not have data-bus connection anyway.
So, the differences between CF and CFi are:
The barrel and grip design differs - some think this CFi design is nicer. It makes no difference to me.
The internal barrel coating of the CFi lenses is new and said to be more resistant to stray light - enhances contrast. Most pros agree that unless shooting in extremely high key uses, the eye cannot see the image difference.
The CFi lens shutter spring is made of a new high-tech metal thus said to extend the life by many decades - well the CF spring is likely to outlast most of us. I understand that the CFi spring can be retro fitted to a CF lens anyway.
The lens mount is a nice unpainted high-tech metal so never shows wear. No real benefit that I can tell.
The filter bayonet is also made of the nice hign-tech metal - resists the paint wear on the CF lens hood and filter bayonets.
Finally (I think!), the CFi has a X synch cord locking fitting on the lens designed to avoid accidental disconnection. Some CFi users complain that the lock device is plastic and too fragile.
So there is no compelling reason IMHO to buy CFi over CF. There is no optical design difference. The choice comes down to relative value between the 2 as far as your personal budget is concerned.
In my case all my lenses are CF except for the 80mm CFE that came with my camera body. To my pocket CF is much better value for money - I get mint used lenses for much less than nice CFi/CFE versions. My CF 150mm is excellent.
flashmxfreak
Member
At first thank you very much for your explanation.
If I good understand there is no optical difference btw. CFi and CF version.
Please what CFE does mean? I mean the E type.
I suppose that you have 150 F4 CF T* and you are content with this lens.
Does exist model 150 F4 CFE T* - I think not.
I looked also the model Sonnar T* 2,8/150 FE.
But for me is it too expensive.
Thank you again.
If I good understand there is no optical difference btw. CFi and CF version.
Please what CFE does mean? I mean the E type.
I suppose that you have 150 F4 CF T* and you are content with this lens.
Does exist model 150 F4 CFE T* - I think not.
I looked also the model Sonnar T* 2,8/150 FE.
But for me is it too expensive.
Thank you again.
polypal
Active Member
Simon thanks for your explanation of CF and CFi lenses.
May I add that the most obvious difference is the helicoid.
Later generation lenses like the CFE and CFi models have a new helicoid that makes focusing easier.
For Jan over 50 years of Hasselblad lenses summarized:
1956-1982 "C" lenses using Compur shutters.
Till 1975 these lenses had silver barrels.
From 1975 till the end of the production the barrels were black.
Just before the introduction of black barrels T* coating was introduced on some lenses still with silver barrel.
Most black lenses have T* coating.
1982-1998 CF lenses with Prontor shutter.
These lenses can also be used with cameras using focal plane shutters from the 2000 series and the later 200 series. In F mode only the shutter in the camera is activated.
Some optical designs were changed like the 40 mm CF.
Others remained the same and even used the same glass.
1998-present CFE and CFi lenses.
CF lenses were upgraded for details see Simons post.
CFE means these lenses were fitted with databus and electronics to communicate with 200 series cameras.
CFi is an upgraded CF without databus.
"F" and "FE" lenses that can only be used with 2000 and 200 series cameras because they do not have a built in shutter.
The 2.8/150 FE is not suitable for your 501CM camera.
May I add that the most obvious difference is the helicoid.
Later generation lenses like the CFE and CFi models have a new helicoid that makes focusing easier.
For Jan over 50 years of Hasselblad lenses summarized:
1956-1982 "C" lenses using Compur shutters.
Till 1975 these lenses had silver barrels.
From 1975 till the end of the production the barrels were black.
Just before the introduction of black barrels T* coating was introduced on some lenses still with silver barrel.
Most black lenses have T* coating.
1982-1998 CF lenses with Prontor shutter.
These lenses can also be used with cameras using focal plane shutters from the 2000 series and the later 200 series. In F mode only the shutter in the camera is activated.
Some optical designs were changed like the 40 mm CF.
Others remained the same and even used the same glass.
1998-present CFE and CFi lenses.
CF lenses were upgraded for details see Simons post.
CFE means these lenses were fitted with databus and electronics to communicate with 200 series cameras.
CFi is an upgraded CF without databus.
"F" and "FE" lenses that can only be used with 2000 and 200 series cameras because they do not have a built in shutter.
The 2.8/150 FE is not suitable for your 501CM camera.
The "E" type lenses not only communicate with 200 series cameras, they communicate with H cameras when fitted with the Hasselblad CF adapter.
When non "CFE" lenses are used, one has to manually input the grip menu as to which lenses is fitted. As a result, the CFE versions are faster to use when shooting with multiple focal lengths.
When non "CFE" lenses are used, one has to manually input the grip menu as to which lenses is fitted. As a result, the CFE versions are faster to use when shooting with multiple focal lengths.
flashmxfreak
Member
Polypal, thank you for your post.
Please what would you recommend for me.
150 F4 CFE or CFI?
If the optic is the same, I think for me does not make sense, or?
Regards Jan
polypal
Active Member
The latest 150 is a CFi lens.
This of course is also the most expensive choice because these lenses are only available from 1998 onwards.
Try to find a nice CF lens that will give the same results as the later CFi version it will be less expensive.
Also the older black C series lenses deserve to be considered.
They will give about the same quality as the CF and can be found for less money than CF lenses.
With Zeiss older does not mean less good.
Only the condition of the lens and the sort of use it had is important.
After the C series most changes that influenced image quality were found with wide angle lenses, 40 and 50 mm and the 350 and 500 tele lenses.
Zeiss lenses for Hasselblad are a confusing matter.
From 80 mm till 250 mm age does not matter much.
The amount of use or abuse a lens had before is more important for the new owner.
This of course is also the most expensive choice because these lenses are only available from 1998 onwards.
Try to find a nice CF lens that will give the same results as the later CFi version it will be less expensive.
Also the older black C series lenses deserve to be considered.
They will give about the same quality as the CF and can be found for less money than CF lenses.
With Zeiss older does not mean less good.
Only the condition of the lens and the sort of use it had is important.
After the C series most changes that influenced image quality were found with wide angle lenses, 40 and 50 mm and the 350 and 500 tele lenses.
Zeiss lenses for Hasselblad are a confusing matter.
From 80 mm till 250 mm age does not matter much.
The amount of use or abuse a lens had before is more important for the new owner.
flashmxfreak
Member
Thank very much for your explanation. I think the 150mm C or CF will be a good choice. I want to start with portrait photography.
I will see how it works for me.
In digital photography world I am not content. I do not know but if I a first time saw a photo from MF cameras - analogue I was very surprised about the difference tonality, colors, etc.
____
The photographer has more work with analogue photo is clear, but the result is distinguishable mostly.
I will see how it works for me.
In digital photography world I am not content. I do not know but if I a first time saw a photo from MF cameras - analogue I was very surprised about the difference tonality, colors, etc.
____
The photographer has more work with analogue photo is clear, but the result is distinguishable mostly.
A note based on experience:
IF one uses a Hasselblad lens to a great degree with strobes and sync cords, the CFi does indeed have a better sync port design and mitigates the notorious issues with the earlier sync port caused by frequent use of sync cords. There is also a incremental improvement of reflection control inside the lens that strobes can occasionally create.
While one has to pay a premium for such incremental improvements, one need only experience sync port failure during a portrait sitting one time to appreciate those incremental improvements. Those who use these lenses frequently in this manner know this, and opt for the CFi versions when we can afford them. This is also what keeps the value of CFi and CFE lenses high should they be sold later.
On the other hand, it's also why one can pick up an older lens with excellent performance for less money. I would offer an opinion that the V series Zeiss lenses are the absolute best optical bargan available today.
IF one uses a Hasselblad lens to a great degree with strobes and sync cords, the CFi does indeed have a better sync port design and mitigates the notorious issues with the earlier sync port caused by frequent use of sync cords. There is also a incremental improvement of reflection control inside the lens that strobes can occasionally create.
While one has to pay a premium for such incremental improvements, one need only experience sync port failure during a portrait sitting one time to appreciate those incremental improvements. Those who use these lenses frequently in this manner know this, and opt for the CFi versions when we can afford them. This is also what keeps the value of CFi and CFE lenses high should they be sold later.
On the other hand, it's also why one can pick up an older lens with excellent performance for less money. I would offer an opinion that the V series Zeiss lenses are the absolute best optical bargan available today.
flashmxfreak
Member
I have one more question.
What is the difference btw. 150 F4 C T* and 150 F4 C
What does the symbol * mean?
I saw price difference about 80 USD.
The model 150 F4 C is cheaper.
Is the picture quality the same?
Thank you
What is the difference btw. 150 F4 C T* and 150 F4 C
What does the symbol * mean?
I saw price difference about 80 USD.
The model 150 F4 C is cheaper.
Is the picture quality the same?
Thank you
polypal
Active Member
The * symbol belongs to "T" meaning T*, T star multicoating.
These lenses have slightly improved contrast, better colour rendering and are less troubled by flair.
When used shooting against a lightsource the better control of flair is important.
Wide angle lenses are more easily affected by flair than longer lenses.
If you can get your hands on a clean 150 C lens that does not yet have the later T* coating and the price is right buy it.
Get yourself a good lens shade or a professional lens shade that can be adapted for several lenses and start shooting.
These lenses have slightly improved contrast, better colour rendering and are less troubled by flair.
When used shooting against a lightsource the better control of flair is important.
Wide angle lenses are more easily affected by flair than longer lenses.
If you can get your hands on a clean 150 C lens that does not yet have the later T* coating and the price is right buy it.
Get yourself a good lens shade or a professional lens shade that can be adapted for several lenses and start shooting.
flashmxfreak
Member
Thank you Polypal: I do not know how to decide.
I will be my first lens so I would like to have for my photos tolerable quality.
I found here one T* lens http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140199878825&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNARL:US:1123
I do not know if the price i high or OK.
Otherwise I looked the keh.com site and found th T* lens in EX quality. $429.00
https://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=HH060000008770&brandcategoryname=Medium%20Format&Mode=searchproducts&item=0&ActivateTOC2=f alse&ID=&BC=&BCC=&CC=&CCC=&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=&KW=hasselblad%20150
150 T in EX qual. $349.00
https://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=HH060000355000&brandcategoryname=Medium%20Format&Mode=searchproducts&item=0&ActivateTOC2=f alse&ID=&BC=&BCC=&CC=&CCC=&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=&KW=hasselblad%20150
I think I will take the T* the $80 difference is not huge and I will not have problems with flair.
Thanks for help Jan
I will be my first lens so I would like to have for my photos tolerable quality.
I found here one T* lens http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140199878825&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNARL:US:1123
I do not know if the price i high or OK.
Otherwise I looked the keh.com site and found th T* lens in EX quality. $429.00
https://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=HH060000008770&brandcategoryname=Medium%20Format&Mode=searchproducts&item=0&ActivateTOC2=f alse&ID=&BC=&BCC=&CC=&CCC=&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=&KW=hasselblad%20150
150 T in EX qual. $349.00
https://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=HH060000355000&brandcategoryname=Medium%20Format&Mode=searchproducts&item=0&ActivateTOC2=f alse&ID=&BC=&BCC=&CC=&CCC=&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=&KW=hasselblad%20150
I think I will take the T* the $80 difference is not huge and I will not have problems with flair.
Thanks for help Jan
polypal
Active Member
Jan,
Any lens from Zeiss produced for Hasselblad will give excellent quality.
This also goes for lenses from the first generation.
In many cases it will be impossible to tell which lens was used if you
take pictures with early and later lenses and compare the prints later.
This does not make it easier to decide what to buy.
For portraits many photographers still use lenses from the first generation.
Amongst these are some world famous photographers. Do not look at age but at the condition of the lens.
If the lens you buy was used with care it will serve you at least another 5-10 years.
Some of us collect older Hasselblad cameras and still use these with lenses that are nearly sixty years old.
Any lens from Zeiss produced for Hasselblad will give excellent quality.
This also goes for lenses from the first generation.
In many cases it will be impossible to tell which lens was used if you
take pictures with early and later lenses and compare the prints later.
This does not make it easier to decide what to buy.
For portraits many photographers still use lenses from the first generation.
Amongst these are some world famous photographers. Do not look at age but at the condition of the lens.
If the lens you buy was used with care it will serve you at least another 5-10 years.
Some of us collect older Hasselblad cameras and still use these with lenses that are nearly sixty years old.
flashmxfreak
Member
Thank you very much for explanation. I understand.
I think now I do know all about my first HB lens buying.
Regards Jan
I think now I do know all about my first HB lens buying.
Regards Jan
simonpg
Active Member
Yes, I am correctly reminded that focusing the CFi / CFE lenses is a bit smoother with a little less resistance that focusing the CF lenses.
My 80mm CFE lens is a little smoother that all my other CF focal length lenses.
But I was unaware that the actual helicoid in the CFi / CFE lenses is actually different and new.
My 80mm CFE lens is a little smoother that all my other CF focal length lenses.
But I was unaware that the actual helicoid in the CFi / CFE lenses is actually different and new.
polypal
Active Member
Hello Simon,
Hasselblad explained the helicoid was new for the CFE/CFi lenses.
You gain some you loose some meaning to me the controls for shutter and
aperture do not feel as positive as those from the CF series.
The redesign of the lenses is enough to justify an upgrade for the lenses that
I use most like the 40 mm, 50 mm, and the 100 mm.
Paul
Hasselblad explained the helicoid was new for the CFE/CFi lenses.
You gain some you loose some meaning to me the controls for shutter and
aperture do not feel as positive as those from the CF series.
The redesign of the lenses is enough to justify an upgrade for the lenses that
I use most like the 40 mm, 50 mm, and the 100 mm.
Paul