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Considering making the move to MF

G

googaliser

Member
As a nikon faithful for over 20 years - the most recent of which spent with the wonderful D3 - my initial assumption was that I would simply 'upgrade' to the D3x.
What is becoming clear though - is that were I to go down the D3x route - it would not be a replacement for my D3 - since I enjoy low light & candid - and this is still the best tool for these.
It therefore looks increasingly likely that my next camera will only be relevant to a subset of my photographic interests - since I already have a good generalist.

The following are conspiring to tip me into the H3 camp:

1) This website - your enthusiasm and the friendly nature of this forum is contagious
2) I have been toying with Hasselblad since the H series was launched - and my curiosity is finally getting the better of me
3) I question the future of 35mm in terms of future advances in technology - and so am cautious about investing further significant money
4) Photography now takes up the majority of my spare time and I am starting to get paid for what I consider a hobby - so I will have less buyers remorse over the initial investment
5) Portraiture & still life are key area of focus going forward and I am investing in a home studio

That in a rather long-winded way takes me to my questions:
Can anyone relate to my dilema, who took the plunge - and will never look back?
If you were starting from fresh - would you go for the 50MP - finances allowing - over the 31 or 39 ?

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to being a part of this great forum.

Rgds,
 
Hi,

I perfectly understand your dilemma. I took the plunge into a H3DII-31 system at photokina'08 (couldn't resist the special offer).
I'm a hobbyist, so that offer was on the edge (and a little beyond) on what i was willing to spend for a camera system. So far i can't think of a situation where i would need more than 31MP but that is of course personal opinion.

The files that come out of the 31MP are still manageable with a MacBook Pro and 4GB of memory so i don't loose mobility, just something to consider with
the 50MP.
For me, the decision was to start with MF digital right away.
I didn't want to make the same mistake i did with analog (starting with 35mm and two years later switched to Hasselblad V System and never used the 35mm since then).

Some other considerations:
- The 31 MP has a lens factor of 1.3, so the 28mm is a 31mm while the
2.2/100mm makes a fine portrait lens.
- The 31MP seems to have color cast issues when used with a view camera
(see http://www.hasselbladinfo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3513)

Anyway, its a remarkable system and so far i haven't regret the purchase.

Regards,
Ralf
 
Welcome!

Hello Googaliser,

Welcome at hasselbladinfo forum and thank you for your kind words.


My two cents in this matter:

Larger amounts of pixels also mean larger files and more storage space needed to store your images.

Looking from a business point of view: if your clients are happy with what you supply using a Nikon D3 camera why upgrade to MF?
On the other hand MF will distinguish you from other suppliers of images at a price that is.
MF will allow for a dramatically better IQ at the loss of high ISO facility although useful ISO settings are being improved steadily with MF.

Image quality of high grade 35 mm based DSLR cameras is not likely to come near MF digital no matter how many pixels these 35 mm based cameras have.

Watch for more comment being posted from H camera users.


Paul
 
Thanks Ralf & Paul
I do a fair amount of HD video editing (XDCAM) - and have (just about) sufficent processing power and storage - so hopefully workflow wont be slowed down too much. I use SSDs as scratch disks so the most likely bottleneck will be getting the images into the computer. In fact - I cannot recommend SSDs highly enough for editing - they have come down a lot in price and have transformed Lightroom performance. I would imagine the difference would be even more noticeable with H3D images.
In terms of image quality - Paul you are right - rarely is the D3 lacking. I'm a perfectionist though - and always want to know how far I can push the technical boundaries. Some of my best shots have been taken with pocket film or digital cameras - the subject matter and technique are what creates a great picture. But when you nail those two - on the best equipment available - thats when it becomes very special. Marrying technology to art is what its all about for me.

Does anyone have any first hand experience of Dalsa versus Kodak CCD's ? - Perhaps through using Phase One backs or other. The H60 versus H50 doesn't make sense to me price-wise for 'an extra 10MP' - but curious on views regarding likely IQ. I can't find any specs on the bigger CCD - clearly a custom chip for H. This from my astro-photo experience is likely to make a much bigger difference to IQ than 10 or even 20MP either way
 
someone lent me the 39 a few weeks ago...i posted the work..and got like countless models now wanting to work with me...before that i was shooting the 1ds mark 3...and so ...every just just said..another slr shooter,,, but went he 16 bit shadding was seen in my work...holycow..everyone wanted to shoot with me all of a sudden... i just got the 50...

the 50 has new technology ...the reds are way better than the 39...also there is a 10k upgrade for the 60...i don't know about that because hassy is using the new dalsa sensor on the new 60 comming...they just finished debugging the kodak sensor form the 31 and the 39...

urg..not looking back now

Lemon..
 
The flock of sheep, be different!

@googaliser - It isn´t a dilemma, MF is the only way to go for a good investment in the future, I´m a Nikon user too and started in MF with 39MP and I´m lucky with this "sexy thing" ;-)
As polypal argued, image quality of 35 mm based DSLR cameras is not likely to come near MF digital, not yet and not in the future.

Do it with MF and you´re happy for many years! With a D3x in two years you begin to cogitate again about pixels and image quality ...running like a flock of sheep controlled by the marketing of Nikcanon. They want only our best, our money..again and again and again.....
 
i hate to be the fly on your ointment...but what do you think about the 60 megapixel release in just 6 months of releasing the 50 mega pixel of hasssy....i call that a marketing gimik...
 
lemonlib said:
i hate to be the fly on your ointment...but what do you think about the 60 megapixel release in just 6 months of releasing the 50 mega pixel of hasssy....i call that a marketing gimik...
Click to expand...


....hehe, I call it a feeble attempt to be a market leader in the matter of resolution, but not enought for us lucky users to think about
 
CCDs

I'm less cynical on the CCD/MP front. In fact - the tricky bit for Hasselblad will be to show restraint (i.e. keep a reasonable product life cycle and thus support used prices). There are a number of very good CCD manufacturers out there who made a living exclusively in low volume specialist applications (military, astro, medical) until now. These include Fairchild, Hamamatsa, E2V as well as Dalsa and Kodak who are early movers in the commercial photography space. Since specialist apps often require much higher tolerances than visual - once these specialist companies tool-up for higher volume - I see a lot more competition developing and greater choice for camera manufacturers and thus ultimately consumers. All this drives prices down, performance up and means product cycles become shorter. Marketing departments will need to manage this more IMO going forward - than artificially creating a pixel race.
The future is very exciting - I believe commercial CCDs are still in their infancy.

Does anyone know if H offer a UK upgrade programme from 50MP to 60MP ? The only website I have found with the 60MP listed suggests it is at a GBP 4K+VAT premium to the 50MP (clearly pre-order only). It would be a nice option to have - just in case the Dalsa chip packs more punch technically aside from the MP advantage. (perhaps better sensitivity/faster - which is not just pixel pitch dependent)
 
DXOMark

Thanks for the link - a great resource.
I'm a bit confused though. It suggests that the H3D-39 is in fact fixed ISO at 50. The Phase One 39MP fairs only marginally better offering true 50 & 100. The Dalsa chipped Leaf 75 on the otherhand - offers (virtually) true ISO 50-800 capability.
Am I reading this correctly ? There's lots more to real-world sensitivity than ISO numbers alone. I'm more concerned about the marketing accuracy.
 
googaliser said:
Thanks for the link - a great resource.
I'm a bit confused though. It suggests that the H3D-39 is in fact fixed ISO at 50. The Phase One 39MP fairs only marginally better offering true 50 & 100. The Dalsa chipped Leaf 75 on the otherhand - offers (virtually) true ISO 50-800 capability.
Am I reading this correctly ? There's lots more to real-world sensitivity than ISO numbers alone. I'm more concerned about the marketing accuracy.
Click to expand...

I think so, every H3D-owner knows the superb performance under controlled lighting conditions and on the other side the flop at ISO400. Maybe the 60MP Dalsa is the way to go and works better under low-light-conditions...maybe
 
First 60 Mp user

lemonlib said:
i hate to be the fly on your ointment...but what do you think about the 60 megapixel release in just 6 months of releasing the 50 mega pixel of hasssy....i call that a marketing gimik...
Click to expand...


Good chance you will have the privilege of soughting out problems related with any new product.
No manufacturer, except Canon, has the time or the funds to do all testing themselves.
The last 5-10 % is left for the first users to deal with.
 
Well, it that were true Paul, Canon would not have released the 1DMKIII with poor continuous focus due to a bad mirror box ... which users discovered and they denied at first leading to the so called "blue dot" fixed cameras ... and the 5D mirror wouldn't have fallen out of so many cameras.

RE: the 60 meg Dalsa sensor, it's already out in a Phase One back and has been tested in the field against P25s and P45s. Incremental gain in detail as expected. But not huge and obvious. Lost the long exposure ability of the P+ backs.

My experience with 35mm DSLRs spans the known universe ... LOL. All the Canon 1D series from the beginning ... up to and including both MKIIIs, Nikon D3/D700, (and I test drive a D3X tomorrow), plus the Sony A900 which is also in my gear closet.

I've owned and used a passel of Medium Format backs including the Leaf 75s which uses a 33 meg Dalsa sensor. it was not any more sensitive than the Hasselblad.

My current MF backs are all Hasselblad. H3D-II 31 and 39. And CFV-II which I use on a 203FE.

I will not upgrade to a 50 because it's not enough improvement to warrant the expense. Marginal at best in real world applications. The 60 may not be much better, BUT it is a larger sensor therefore less crop factor for wide angle work. That will be worth a look in maybe a year or so. What is of greater interest is a multishot for still life work. That is still the undisputed champion for detail.

As far as the company screwing their customer by launching the 60 on the heals of the 50 ... well that assumes a consumer so unintelligent as to be lead about by the nose and will buy anything thrown in front of them. The offer is a 31, 39, 50 and 60. pick the one that suits your needs and go make photos. If you are chaffing for the 60 ... then that's what you need, and it's been no secret that the 60 meg back was coming ... so if you bought a 50 but need a 60 ... sounds like a bad move to me.
 
Perfection

Hi Marc,

I did not mean Canon products are all faultless.
Todays complicated technology will always give rise to problems.
And yes even Canon makes products that do not meet the rightful expectations users have.

It is not only the cost to sought out possible problems under different conditions of use.
It is also a matter of rush to release a new model to stay ahead of the competition.

Paul
 
Decision Made

Well after much procrastination - and a little detour via a Nikon D3x - the decision has been made. Ordering the 50MP on Monday - with the option to upgrade to the 60MP. I managed to buy 4 basically new lenses (at less than half retail) from an Ebay chap a few weeks ago - and having them sit there doing nothing is simply too much temptation.
My 35, 120M, 50-110 & stock 80mm will also be joined by the 100mm which everyone seems to have high praise for.
A D3x & a 600mm VR will help fund the newcomer & if I can track down a HTS 1.5 in the UK (now or imminent) - then my Nikon T/S lenses will also get the boot. The D3 is a keeper though for low light.
All a bit daunting - but from what I hear - it could get about 25% more daunting when the price rise comes in - so better now than later !
Thanks to everyone for their input and guidance - it made a difference - and I look forward to contributing as a 'user' next time.
 
googaliser said:
Well after much procrastination - and a little detour via a Nikon D3x - the decision has been made. Ordering the 50MP on Monday - with the option to upgrade to the 60MP. I managed to buy 4 basically new lenses (at less than half retail) from an Ebay chap a few weeks ago - and having them sit there doing nothing is simply too much temptation.
My 35, 120M, 50-110 & stock 80mm will also be joined by the 100mm which everyone seems to have high praise for.
A D3x & a 600mm VR will help fund the newcomer & if I can track down a HTS 1.5 in the UK (now or imminent) - then my Nikon T/S lenses will also get the boot. The D3 is a keeper though for low light.
All a bit daunting - but from what I hear - it could get about 25% more daunting when the price rise comes in - so better now than later !
Thanks to everyone for their input and guidance - it made a difference - and I look forward to contributing as a 'user' next time.
Click to expand...

I just resisted the siren call of the D3X. But will keep the D3 for the same reason you did.

By all means get the 100/2.2! It's a honey!

And if you do not have the 300/3.5 and 1.7X then you aren't really a true H shooter ... just a wanna be : -)

Soon, you will be selling off some of your organs to get the next Hasselblad temptation ... LOL!

So, welcome to Dante's entrance to Hell: "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here."
 
Expectation management

Thanks fotografz - many a true word said in jest !

Personally I prefer the look of:

Tele-SuperAchromat T* FE 300mm/2.8

Start the fires....
 
googaliser said:
Thanks fotografz - many a true word said in jest !

Personally I prefer the look of:

Tele-SuperAchromat T* FE 300mm/2.8

Start the fires....
Click to expand...

Who doesn't?

Can't use a FE lens on an H camera. So, if you have an H3D-II/50 or 60 the 300FE SA is basically a giant, very expensive paper-weight.

There IS something to be said about having a lens you can actually use ... LOL!
 
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