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50th anniversary

Just back from a blissful moment away from digital this and digital that.

Took the 203FE and 50/2.8 FE for a walk in my charming little town. E12 back filled with Tri-X 320 Pro. Strolling along smelling the non-digital fresh cut grass contemplating one careful non-digital shot here and another there. Didn't even use up the 12 frames. If it was digital I would have cranked out 12 shots before I got out of my own yard : -)

Okay, I take it all back. This is the best camera ever made. It's a polished jewel amonst gravel. And now, instead of impulsively processing a pile of digital files, I can enjoy a glass of wine and the remainder of beautiful day.

: -)
 
Marc

Cheers . I hope it is a good wine .
My modified 203FE will become my CFV-BACK camera . And I say , it is the best HASSELBLAD ever made . Have a nice weekend .

Jurgen
 
Way to go, Marc:

You got me so enthused with your wonderfully descriptive little story, it made me jump up from my desk ... and get a glass of wine too.

Cheers,

Colin

Seriously, though, isn't the deliberate and contemplative analog workflow such a great de-stressor.
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http://www.mentalrobics.com/mind/640.html The 203FE is your perfect trigger.
 
Hi Q.G.,

> It would. > > But that wouldn't help identifying what it is that makes this lens > particularly suited for digital photography.

Exactly ;-) What is it then? Any thought(s)?

Regards,

Austin
 
The surface of a digital sensor is much more reflective than film. "Digital" lenses have coatings designed to minimize scattering of the reflected light. The interior of the lens body may also have infra-red absorbing paint. Of course, it could still all be marketing hype.

Regards, Ramesh Pooran
 
Ramesh,

The notion that, because in digital cameras the sensor reflects more light than film, the lenses need a special coating, or more of it, is not even marketing hype, but one of the latest 'urban myths'.
It is, i'm afraid, nonsense.

All lenses have antireflection coatings since half a century or so.
These coatings do their jobs regardless how much light is involved.

Another part of this myth as it is told is that 'regular' lenses only have a coating on the surfaces facing the front, and since the light reflected off the sensor is coming from the other end, 'digital' lenses need their rear surfaces coated also.

And that too, of course, is nonsense. Coatings have been applied on all surfaces, not just the ones facing the front. And that because all boundary surfaces reflect light, and light bounces back and forth (and back and forth, and [etc.]) between boundary surfaces anyway.

The IR absorbing paint is a new one to me.
With a IR filter in place, you do not need to take other measures to reduce IR light. So i think that too is highly suspect.

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Here's the "Marketing Hype" from Schneider:

Apo-Digitar

This complete series of digital photographic lenses, with a focal length range of 28 to 150mm, has been especially designed to meet the needs of digital photography.
They provide the ultra-high resolution required by today's CCD sensors and by the next generation, as well. This assures the highest possible image quality.
The complete Digitar series covers a broad spectrum of applications. As with all Schneider large format lenses, Digitar lenses offer outstanding clarity and sharpness over their entire image fields. Their large image circles enable all the tilt and shift adjustments of professional studio cameras to be used in digital photography. This ensures that professional photographers can meet all their quality requirements whenever they shoot with high-resolution digital backs. Furthermore, because Digitar lenses also provide outstanding, superior imaging quality with standard photographic film, photographers now need purchase only one set of lenses to have the best of both worlds.

It sounds like this was the next generation of lenses anyway, and they positioned them as particularly suited to digital work, since a majority of commercial photography is digital.
Even they say they are perfectly suited for use with film.

I also think that word of mouth among professional photographers tags certain lenses as being better than others for digital capture based on practical experience.

For ex&le, the photographers at City Lights Studio in my area who use view cameras to shoot things like cars, food, furniture, architecture, and some clothing catalogs, had many LF lenses in their arsenal prior to adopting digital capture. They found some to be just fine as is, but others lacking when compared to the same lenses used with film. Those were replaced with "digital versions" after testing them against their existing lenses of the same or similar focal lenghts.

These guys are top shooters doing national adverting and collateral materials, so I trust their pratical collective opinions.

Based on that I did secure two digital lenses, but will also use my more conventional LF glass purchased some years back ... only needing the correct lens boards for the Rollie Xact camera.
 
In the second issue of "Victor" (the too-large-magazine), another interpretation of "digital lens" is given.
When designing the 28 mm HC lens, the choice was made not (!) to correct distortion, let it increase even, to make the lens smaller, and cheaper, and allow design efforts to concentrate on other qualities.
The "digital" bit is in Hasselblad's "DAC": the postprocessing that corrects the aberrations the lens designer deliberatly did not tackle.
 
Now, here's an excerpt article by FLAAR concerning Rodenstock digital lenses:

More about them at:

www.digital-photography.org

"Rodenstock digital lenses":

"What lens should you use for professional digital photography? Can you use a regular (traditional) lens or do you need a special digital lens?"

"Rodenstock has taken a lead in the recognition of the special requirements of advanced digital systems. Linear digital systems scan red, blue, and green colors separately. If the lens focuses each color differently, the end result will be out of register. This failure was previously considered "corrected" if the error was small. But Mike Collette, Better Light, recognized quickly "that even the best lens designer is going to have a painful surprise when people start looking closely at enlargements of digital photographs." The slightest enlargement shows red, blue, and green lines clearly not overlapping, even with the highest regarded German lenses. I do not list the lens manufacturer by name since they had no way to know about the capability of digital resolution when these lenses were designed years ago. Besides, both of the top lens brands suffer the same optical situation.

If you select an APO lens you can correct considerable problems. Both Michael Collette, inventor of the Better Light digital system, and Steve Johnson, professional photographer specializing in digital panoramas, each suggested to me that I try APO lenses. My normal Macro lens was a Schneider 180mm Makro-Symmar which had faithfully served me for thousands of 4x5 photographs on film. The Rodenstock brochures I had in the USA did not list any APO lens in the macro range (most of my photography is of archaeological artifacts and I tend to use macro lenses for them). Thus it was a pleasant surprise when Dr. Rascher indicated that Rodenstock did indeed have an apochromatic macro lens, as well as a variety of lenses appropriate for digital needs.

Since virtual reality is a huge market for panorama photography, wide angle lenses are increasingly called for. Rodenstock offers a considerable variety in apochromatic format.

But be forewarned, do not trust cheap lenses from after-market companies in Asia. Many carry the apo-designation, but you get what you pay for, a cheap Asian knockoff.

The true apochromatic lenses for wide angle photography with high quality German optics would be the Apo-Grandagon series.

For the demanding requirements in other aspects of high resolution digital imagery, Rodenstock offers their Apo-Sironar-Digital, Apo-Macro-Sironar, Apo-Sironar-S, Apo-Rodagon-N, and Apo-Rodagon-D series of precision optics.

Since FLAAR. is oriented towards scientific photography, we might also mention the Rodenstock series of highly specialized macro lenses for CCD cameras. Rodenstock offers reproduction ratios from 1:7 to 8:1."

Now, here's a blurb from the Rodenstock site:

"Apo-Sironar Digital & Apo-Macro-Sironar Digital LF lenses:"

"This line of lenses provides the photographer with an exhaustive spectrum of focal lengths for digital shots in the very highest imaging quality with adjustable professional cameras. The fine gradation meets the demands of every motif situation and all chip and scanner formats. Focal lengths from 35 mm mean that real wide-angle shots are possible even with the smaller chip sizes while still allowing large movements. All Apo-Sironar digital lenses are characterized by excellent sharpness and brilliance together with total freedom from color fringes in real apo quality."

NOTE: the last line: "Real APO Quality"

So, based upon the statements by Mike Collette of Better Light, and Rodenstocks reference to "Real APO Quality", it seems that the further refinements of APO corrections for these lenses where triggered by the specific demands of digital imaging.

Of course they can also be used with film. I don't think anyone thinks they can't unless they are lenses with a smaller coverage.
 
Hmmm...

The Superachromat (a class better than apochromats) and other lenses of this class (like the Pentax Ultrachromats) were made long before digital, and because of the very same reason: reduction of fringing and improvement of image resolution.
Why, lens designers have been working to reduce colour faults ever since ortho- and panchromatic emulsions became available, and again for the same reasons.

So i'm wondering what's new about these "Real APO Quality" lenses?
(And why not aim a bit higher than 'just' Apo?).

I'd say this (too?) is hype.
 
P.S.

Colour fringes are a bigger problem (compared to film) in digital capture.
But that's mostly (if not entirely) due to the colour matrix nature of sensors, which can create fringes all by itself. Though it certainly doesn't help if the lens too ceates fringes, it's not really something a lens designer can make go away.
 
>[Does anyone have any advice on a portable flash system for the H >series. I am interested in both mounted flash and macro. The >mounted flash that I have heard of is the Metz54 system. For a >macro flash there is an old dedicated macro flash that can be used >on the 500 system but i am uncertain whether you can adapt it to the >Hasselblad HC system or not. I have a quantum flash system but it >is not as portable as I would like.]
 
>[Does anyone have any advice on a portable flash system for the H >series. I am interested in both mounted flash and macro. The >mounted flash that I have heard of is the Metz54 system. For a >macro flash there is an old dedicated macro flash that can be used >on the 500 system but i am uncertain whether you can adapt it to the >Hasselblad HC system or not. I have a quantum flash system but it >is not as portable as I would like]
 
Hi Mark, for portability the Metz 54 is perfect on the H system.

I use that flash for shooting wedding work on the fly. I'm not a huge fan of the Metz 54 ergonomics in terms of the little control buttons, and action path you have to take to adjust
flash compensation ... but the good news is that with the H cameras, the control is taken over by the camera and it is extremely easy to adjust. It is a very accurate system.

For work that demands more power, I'm using the Metz 70MZ-5 Handle unit. It's pretty big, but I like it better than the Quantums because I hate slinging a battery over my shoulder when shooting. The rechargable batteries for the 70MZ-5 slip into the base of the handle and are long lasting. I take two of them to wedding but have never needed the second one.

Can't help you with the macro situation. I use a Profoto ring light with a macro reflector. Alien Bee now makes a ring flash that is very resonably priced ... but of course it's not TTL.
 
>[Marc thanks for the advice that seems reasonable. Since i have the >quantum and modules for the Hasselblad and Canon, I will likely keep >this system for now but adde the 54. One question is that the >module for the H system sold by metz is less than half the price >compared to the hasselblad module. Are they the same?]
 
The designation printed on the module I use has the Hasselblad Logo on it followed by SCA 3902, then below that it says M2 made in germany. I don't know of any other. I do know this one works.
 
Marc said: <<<<it>>>>

Primarily I think the LF lens makers are releasing new super-wide lenses to meet the need of shooters using sliding back adapters on their LF cameras to enable single or multi shot (and stitching) work with their digital MF backs.

For LF users wanting to shoot digital images, MF backs fitted to "sliding" back adapters are currently the optimal option. But due to the relatively small sensor size shooters need super-wide lenses. Unfortunately, these lenses will be of little help to folding type view camera users due to the proximity of the rear elements / lens to the ground glass, camera structure and inability to use lens board movements that also make LF so compelling. So I suppose in the focal length respect these new lenses are optimised for digital capture. But, I can't see too many shooters looking to use the 28mm LF lens when shooting 4x5 film (since the equivalent angle of view to 135 format would be about 9mm!).

BUT, the only claim about "digitally" optimised lenses I have ever read and thought made sense (and which may address the point Marc made about some LF pros he has met who have noticed a difference in LF image) is the claim about the lens design adjusting the angle at which light hits the sensor/photo-sites. It seems that for the very best digital image result a lens needs to hit photo-sites at a particular angle (I am no expert in such matters but the logic seemed reasonable to me).

Now having read Marc's further post it seems there are 2 credible "optimised for digital" claims - APO being the second. It seems to make some logical sense too - although APO has been around for a while and was not introduced specifically for digital capture.

So, the upshot is that there are some lenses that may be optimised for digital capture in any format - 135, MF and LF - even if they were not necessarily, initially and specifically designed with that objective. But, like all things it comes down to whether or not we can see the difference and value that difference enough to make the investment. And those characteristics that are not new to the digital era may still be optimal for digital capture - a technical statement rather than just marketing hype?
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Colin, that the Rollei Xact has been discontinued is news to Rollei. We were told by the head of the Rollei service department that not only has there been no news to that effect, but that the Rollei Xact is a best seller for Rollei.

He did say that the Rollei professional line MAY soon be called Franke & Heidecke or Rolleiflex ... and there MAY be different channels of distribution ... which MAY be leading to some confusion as to the continuance of the Rollei line.

RE: APO/Digital lenses, Simon said "But, like all things, it comes down to whether or not we can see the difference and value that difference enough to make the investment."

Simon, I think in most cases it once again comes down to who is using these high resolution backs, which is overwhelmingly professional photographers who can pay for them through work levels. They are working in incredibly demanding quality environments, and seek what we may consider marginal advantages, but they see as of greater importance. I track an international forum of professional photographers using Imacon and Hasselblad digital solutions that are dealing with specific issues like Moir&eacute; when shooting complex fabrics, partial color shifts when using severe tilts or shifts, and stuff like that.

From what I can gather from the statement by Mike Collette, is that even many APO lenses designed prior to the Digital Tsunami washed over the professional world are lacking when it comes to these critical applications of high resolution backs.

In addition, understand that in many cases professional photographers are using multi-shot backs that do 4 or even 16 shots of a product still life ... creating huge high resolution files ... and there are even those using the Kapture Group dual and quad shot stitching adapters for view cameras producing up to 140+ meg RAW files that yield 16 bit Tiff files approaching 1 gigabyte
 
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