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Newbies of Hassy

C

Chickenwing412

New Member
Halo everyone,

I m completely new in Hassy family, not even have one at the moment....

Having been shooting for 5 years in digi, as well as doing a year in the old mechanical film camera.... I feel a "need" to experience the power of medium format, in particular the 6x6...

I personally am more into the 500CM and 501CM....
But I m not too familiar with the 5-series family and would like to know more (a lot more) about them before making my final decision.

Can any Pros share their views on these 5-series family, ie. the 500C, 500CM, 501CM, 503CW and many more.... they looked less or more the same to me except the year of production and their price.....

Any website(s) that is good for a newbies like me to get to know more about the bodies and lenses? (Not those Wiki-kinda stuff)

Many Tks~~~~~~
 
Any model from the 500 series will suit you but keep in mind the 500C was first sold in 1957.

Quite a number of these bodies have seen hard professional at one time in their long lifes.
Nothing against pro use as long as this comes with timely and proper service of the camera.

Service history is the unknown factor for most cameras on offer.

That is why I recommend to go for a later model like the 501CM or the 503CW.
A 501 CM is not the same body as the 501C. The 501C still has the early mirror system
These later bodies are less depending on service since they have a different mirror mechanism.

If you decide to go for a 500CM keep in mind to leave some room in your budget for a full service of the camera.

Same goes for film backs. The last generation with dark slide holder is now available at very friendly prices.

Happy hunting!


Lenses:

Difference between C/CF/CFE/CFi
The first generation lenses for the 500 series Hasselblad cameras were called "C" lenses after the name of the shutter : Compur.
The first C lenses were produced in 1956 a year before the 500C camera became available.
Starting in 1971 C lenses received an improved 6 layer coating called T*
All lenses are subcequently T* coated except superachromat versions.

C lenses were superceded by CF lenses in 1982 and later for some focal lengths.
The shutter was replaced by a Prontor one.
The F indicates these lenses can also be used with 200 series bodies that have a focal plane shutter.
To accomodate full functions of these cameras the Prontor shutter is not used when the lens is set to "F"
The lens stays open to allow viewing of the subject immediately after the picture is taken.
Winding the camera is not necessary. This is similar to any 35 mm SLR camera.

The CF series was improved in 1998.
Improved lenses were known as CFi models.
Improvements were: better anti reflection coating, different helicoid, better PC for flash or digital back and a new type mainspring to improve already very good reliability.

Some improved lenses also received data bus contacts for cameras of the 200 series that have built in light metering systems.
These lenses were known as CFE models.
Of course CFE lenses also function on 500 series bodies without the light measuring system.
Technically for 500 series bodies CFE and CFi lenses are the same.

To complicate matters some lenses are available now used as CF, CFE and CFi versions.

The 80 mm started life as a CF lens changed in 1998 into a CFE model and is now available as CFi lens.
Similar things happened to the 120 Makro Planar lens:
The lens started as CF changed over to CFi became a CFE and is now again available as CFi lens.
All CFE versions were dropped because the 200 series cameras were phased out in 2004.

For a user of a 500 series body there is no difference between a CFE or a CFi version.
Keep in mind the CF version is older and does not have the later improvements.
Still the CF is a very good lens.
The helicoid of the later lenses is ergonomically better although not everybody agrees on this.

Carl Zeiss also made an economy version of certain lenses.
These lenses are called CB and were available in four different focal lenghts: 60/80/120/160 mm.
Economy version as in 1700 euro against 1950 euro for the 80 mm lens.
Not a big difference and certainly not big enough to persuade buyers to buy CB lenses.
Production and supply of CB lenses stopped after a couple of years.


source: hasselbladinfo forum
 
polypal said:
Any model from the 500 series will suit you but keep in mind the 500C was first sold in 1957.

Quite a number of these bodies have seen hard professional at one time in their long lifes.
Nothing against pro use as long as this comes with timely and proper service of the camera.

Service history is the unknown factor for most cameras on offer.

That is why I recommend to go for a later model like the 501CM or the 503CW.
A 501 CM is not the same body as the 501C. The 501C still has the early mirror system
These later bodies are less depending on service since they have a different mirror mechanism.

If you decide to go for a 500CM keep in mind to leave some room in your budget for a full service of the camera.

Same goes for film backs. The last generation with dark slide holder is now available at very friendly prices.

Happy hunting!


Lenses:

Difference between C/CF/CFE/CFi
The first generation lenses for the 500 series Hasselblad cameras were called "C" lenses after the name of the shutter : Compur.
The first C lenses were produced in 1956 a year before the 500C camera became available.
Starting in 1971 C lenses received an improved 6 layer coating called T*
All lenses are subcequently T* coated except superachromat versions.

C lenses were superceded by CF lenses in 1982 and later for some focal lengths.
The shutter was replaced by a Prontor one.
The F indicates these lenses can also be used with 200 series bodies that have a focal plane shutter.
To accomodate full functions of these cameras the Prontor shutter is not used when the lens is set to "F"
The lens stays open to allow viewing of the subject immediately after the picture is taken.
Winding the camera is not necessary. This is similar to any 35 mm SLR camera.

The CF series was improved in 1998.
Improved lenses were known as CFi models.
Improvements were: better anti reflection coating, different helicoid, better PC for flash or digital back and a new type mainspring to improve already very good reliability.

Some improved lenses also received data bus contacts for cameras of the 200 series that have built in light metering systems.
These lenses were known as CFE models.
Of course CFE lenses also function on 500 series bodies without the light measuring system.
Technically for 500 series bodies CFE and CFi lenses are the same.

To complicate matters some lenses are available now used as CF, CFE and CFi versions.

The 80 mm started life as a CF lens changed in 1998 into a CFE model and is now available as CFi lens.
Similar things happened to the 120 Makro Planar lens:
The lens started as CF changed over to CFi became a CFE and is now again available as CFi lens.
All CFE versions were dropped because the 200 series cameras were phased out in 2004.

For a user of a 500 series body there is no difference between a CFE or a CFi version.
Keep in mind the CF version is older and does not have the later improvements.
Still the CF is a very good lens.
The helicoid of the later lenses is ergonomically better although not everybody agrees on this.

Carl Zeiss also made an economy version of certain lenses.
These lenses are called CB and were available in four different focal lenghts: 60/80/120/160 mm.
Economy version as in 1700 euro against 1950 euro for the 80 mm lens.
Not a big difference and certainly not big enough to persuade buyers to buy CB lenses.
Production and supply of CB lenses stopped after a couple of years.


source: hasselbladinfo forum
Click to expand...

Thx Polypal~
I m sure the later model would make life a little easier.

But seriously, what're the major differences between a 500CM & 501CM?
 
Chickenwing412 said:
Halo everyone,

I m completely new in Hassy family, not even have one at the moment....

Having been shooting for 5 years in digi, as well as doing a year in the old mechanical film camera.... I feel a "need" to experience the power of medium format, in particular the 6x6...

Many Tks~~~~~~
Click to expand...

Welcome to the wonderful world of medium format. I really recommend you to try it out. Start cheap with a 500c, one lens or maybe two, one or two backs. I would recommend You to start with B/W film, develope it yourself. Easy and really fun. Don´t be afraid of an old 500, but se if You can find one from an amateur. There are a lot of of them out there. You can get one complete kit for under $1000. The cheapest at the moment is $750!

After a while You find yourself wanting more of it, or You find out that this was not Your thing. If the first appears, You can upgrade an sell Your earlier investment almost certain without loss. If the second appear, You can still sell Your equipment without loss.

The very big risk, is that You after a while hunger for an digital back and at that point You are, I´m afraid, totally lost to the medium format.

A digital back can cost You anything from $5.000 up to $40.000 plus all the gear you want.
 
Hello,
This is my first post so we're both newbies here, though I've had a long and fruitful relationship with 'Blads.
The 500c to my knowledge doesn't have interchangable focussing screens, which means that you can't swap the old dull screen for the very much brighter Acute Mat yourself.
The 500c and 500cm bodies have a flexing mirror mount that needs a kind of foam rubber mounting for the mirror glass. Over the years, this degrades and your focusing will be inaccurate.
It's no big deal - any specialist Blad technician can quickly set it right and you'll have a camera for another 20 years! But that's why Paul said spend the dollars on a service.
I'm one of the legions of Blad fans who love my old Zeiss lenses, so bought a Canon 5D2 and lens adapter for a cheap 'digital back'. Not the same as the pleasure of using the old camera body, but it is a digital path that lets you enjoy 120 film and digi with the same lenses, close up gear, filters etc.
But not in wide angle, without stitching.
Enjoy your Hassleblad adventures. I love the 500 series because it is the original vision of the master. There was no camera like them.
Wayne
 
Differences in lens performance

I was about to start a new thread regarding lens performance. Polypal's
excellent description of lens history in this thread, along with new member's questions regarding camera differences, makes it appropriate to continue here.

My question is if there's significant difference in 'real world' performance between say, a 1970's non-T* lens and the latest CF, or CFi/CFE versions.

Specifically, I have non T* 150 and 250 Sonnars in nearly perfect condition and both have recently been serviced. Will there be significant improvement in image quality with CF, CFi, or CFE versions of these lenses?

Can anyone provide comparisons between 'old' and 'new' lenses?
 
I'm sure there are lots of people with old and new lenses for comparison. My experience is not direct, but I have a mix of T-star and pre-T-star, and an early 80mm C T-star and an 80mm CF. My impression is that image contrast is enhanced with the T-star but not resolution. The contrast manifests on film with a snappier and more saturated transparency.
So in the real-world, imho, T-star is worthwhile if you're shooting film for presentation as originals, say to an editor or photo library, viewable on a light table, but if converting to digital, the difference is a couple of mouse clicks in photoshop.
Of course, if you're pointing a lens at light and it's flaring, the better coating will help minimse ghosts etc.
I can't directly compare 150mm and 250mm C to CF. My black but not T-star 250mm (bought new in 1977) outperforms my pretty new 300mm f4 AFED Nikkor in every way, and is superior to any of my current model Nikon and Canon zooms.
My old silver 120mm Planar-S (pre-Makro) is neck and neck with my 105 Micro-Nikkor. These comparisons are on the same Canon 5D2 body, at 21mp. Corners are perfect with the '70's Ziess lenses, which is more than I can say with any of my new Canon lenses!
Of course the CF lenses are more convenient to use than the rather fiddly controls on the C lenses, but one gets used to the eccentricities. The filters are smaller and cheaper for the C lenses!
Cheers
 
Hello Ecopix,


Good to read a Carl Zeiss design, like the 250 C lens, dating back to the early days of Hasselblad cameras beats a new Canon 300 mm lens.

T* is only of minor importance when struggling with flare.
A good shade like the pro shade does more than T* will ever do.
If a pro shade is not available at least use one of the fixed shades made for most lenses.

The 120 S-Planar is one of my favorite lenses.
Silver or black, with T* or without the 120 is an exceptional lens.
 
Depends on the lens I'd say

Better coating is more important when more glass-air boundaries are present in a lens. So more lens elements in a design like better coating. Wide angle lenses also like better coatings, given the more extreme angles at which light rays enter/exit lens elements.

Whether things are obvious in a image, well.... YMMV a great deal.

Wilko
 
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