Don't shoot handheld over 1/125?

[zthee]

First real post for me!

"Don't shoot handheld over 1/125!" - Seems to be a rule of thumb to get the sharpest possible images (when shooting handheld that is). Or that's how I've come to understand it by reading around on different forums.

I've been wondering about this statement. I shoot with a 203FE, and the travel time for the focal plane shutter is 1/90. Which should give that no matter if I put the camera in 1/2000 or 1/125 the amount of time it takes to expose the entire frame is 1/90?

Enough to give some sort of blurriness? Does it mean that theoretically FPS cameras would be no good shooting handheld?

In my experience I get good results shooting handheld at 1/90. And I guess it's the real results that matter, if I get good results I get good results, no matter what the technical specification/limitation. I just wanted to know if anyone has felt limited by the 1/90 speed of the 2xx(x) series? Except in flash applications that is.

Cheers!

 

[blowupster]

Most of my shots are without tripod. As I have a 203 and like to use flash for fill in, my usual speed is 1/90. As I rarely use longer lens as 110mm it's ok.
My way of shoting is to use same speed as focal for normal cases. 100mm--> 1/90 50mm --> 1/60 If I expect big print 100mm--> 1/250 and so-on.
But you need ti adapt: a leaf on a tree must need 1/125 and tripod even with soft wind for large print.

 

[Olof B]

- zthee: Aren't you thinking in the opposite way?
With faster shutter speed you can hand hold longer lenses. With the "rule" 1/lens length is the shutter speed. IE 60mm lens gives 1/60 sec.
That give with a 2xx(x)-bodies (in theory) you should be able to use a 500-lens with two 2x-extenders, hand held.
In theory... (I would fall over by the weight...)

The thing with the quite long time with flash and the focal plane shutter is that the flash need the complete frame to be visible to get an even exposure.
With times shorter than 1/90 the second curtain starts to move before the first one have rehashed the other side. So it is practically a slot that moved across the image. (and you can get distorted images if you capture a moving object).
But at 1/90 and slower the first curtain reaches the opposite side, and then after a while the second curtain starts to move.

 

[fotografz]

First real post for me!

"Don't shoot handheld over 1/125!" - Seems to be a rule of thumb to get the sharpest possible images (when shooting handheld that is). Or that's how I've come to understand it by reading around on different forums.

I've been wondering about this statement. I shoot with a 203FE, and the travel time for the focal plane shutter is 1/90. Which should give that no matter if I put the camera in 1/2000 or 1/125 the amount of time it takes to expose the entire frame is 1/90?

Enough to give some sort of blurriness? Does it mean that theoretically FPS cameras would be no good shooting handheld?

In my experience I get good results shooting handheld at 1/90. And I guess it's the real results that matter, if I get good results I get good results, no matter what the technical specification/limitation. I just wanted to know if anyone has felt limited by the 1/90 speed of the 2xx(x) series? Except in flash applications that is.

Cheers!

That is incorrect. 1/90th is the highest shutter speed on a 203FE where both shutters are completely open when the flash fires ... known as Sync Speed. So, you can use flash at any shutter speed up to and including 1/90th where the quick burst of light from a flash will cover the whole frame.

Higher shutter speeds above 1/90th are accomplished by a moving slit ... where one half of the shutter moves right behind the other half. The faster the shutter speed, the narrower the slit. If you fired a flash above 1/90th, only part of the frame would be exposed by the flash burst.

Flash levels are determined by duration ... how long the flash stays on, not by different levels of power. The shorter the duration the less light reaches the film/digital sensor. A flash adjusted to minimum settings can produce durations as short as 1/3000th ... and set to maximum settings can have a duration as long as 1/800th. Point is, the duration a flash is exposing is very fast.

What this means is that in darker conditions using flash, you can often use a slower shutter speed than normal, because the flash is lighting the subject and is only on a very brief time. This technique is called "Dragging the Shutter" Using 1/50th shutter with a 80mm lens for example.

When shooting with available light only you can use any shutter speed, however, with Medium Format hand-held, the general rule is to use a shutter speed higher than the focal length ... at least 1/125th with a 100mm for example, or 1/250th with a 180mm.

-Marc

 

[zthee]

Hey, thanks for the answers!

I've got something new stuff to think about. As it seems I've got it wrong.

I've never heard the rules about focal length as a time reference. I'll be using that a lot from now on! Thanks!

 

[fotografz]

Hey, thanks for the answers!

I've got something new stuff to think about. As it seems I've got it wrong.

I've never heard the rules about focal length as a time reference. I'll be using that a lot from now on! Thanks!

It's not a set of rules as much as set of rough guide-lines. There are those that advocate using double the focal length as the rule of thumb for hand-held MF work. Some folks are really steady at hand held work and some less so. No matter how steady you are working hand-held, there is mirror slap involved and MF mirrors are big.

On the H camera there is a menu option for a mirror delay as measured in ms, but it actually works for using slower shutter speeds than normal in available light shooting.

-Marc

 

[wbulte]

No matter how steady you are working hand-held, there is mirror slap involved and MF mirrors are big.

-Marc

I have had considerable success (or luck as some might probably explain it?) using the mirror prerelease even when doing handheld shots. Or, in some cases, sort-of stabilising myself against a rock or a building wall. This was with a 501C/M or 500C/M, so using the leaf shutter in the lens.

-Wilko

 

[HasselbLike]

I have had considerable success (or luck as some might probably explain it?) using the mirror prerelease even when doing handheld shots. Or, in some cases, sort-of stabilising myself against a rock or a building wall. This was with a 501C/M or 500C/M, so using the leaf shutter in the lens.

-Wilko

Just a question how do you do the mirror prerelease when you use the camera on hand hold shooting. I thought this is only to apply on tripod shooting.I mean you can always do that when the camera is on a tripod and it is very comfortable to do all the pre-adjustments and release the mirror and click. When you try to release the mirror i don't know how you arrange the composition.

Thanks Wilko

 

[HasselbLike]

203FE manual Shutter setting.

First real post for me!

"Don't shoot handheld over 1/125!" - Seems to be a rule of thumb to get the sharpest possible images (when shooting handheld that is). Or that's how I've come to understand it by reading around on different forums.

I've been wondering about this statement. I shoot with a 203FE, and the travel time for the focal plane shutter is 1/90. Which should give that no matter if I put the camera in 1/2000 or 1/125 the amount of time it takes to expose the entire frame is 1/90?

Enough to give some sort of blurriness? Does it mean that theoretically FPS cameras would be no good shooting handheld?

In my experience I get good results shooting handheld at 1/90. And I guess it's the real results that matter, if I get good results I get good results, no matter what the technical specification/limitation. I just wanted to know if anyone has felt limited by the 1/90 speed of the 2xx(x) series? Except in flash applications that is.

Cheers!

Most of my shots are without tripod. As I have a 203 and like to use flash for fill in, my usual speed is 1/90. As I rarely use longer lens as 110mm it's ok.
My way of shoting is to use same speed as focal for normal cases. 100mm--> 1/90 50mm --> 1/60 If I expect big print 100mm--> 1/250 and so-on.
But you need ti adapt: a leaf on a tree must need 1/125 and tripod even with soft wind for large print.

Hello ,Zthee and blowupster



I own the 203fe camera. and I have two lenses 150mm and 120-60mm Zoom.
I have used the camera mostly on handheld. Even with the heavy and bulky Zoom lens. I have got the best results and I was known to this Rule of thumb about the focal lens and the related shutter speed setting. So luckily it has improved my consistence in sharpness.I have always given more priority for the speed so I am always in the safe side on an average daylight situations.

By the way,,,This is good chance to put another problem I have in my camera.
In my camera I find some faults in the meter settings. On Manual Some of the shutter settings won't give the right indication. This is to say after 1/250 it is 1/45 and then 1/60 ( this should be according to my setting 1/125 and 1/90)
So When I set the camera on the flash when I set it 1/90 the real synchronisation setting indicate as 1/60. and again when i I go to the lowest setting below 1/8 it indicates 1/10 and only 1second is correct . I think there's some thing wrong and when I originally bought the camera during 2000 i found this problem and went to a dealer and checked with another brand new camera. Then strangely we found the same fault.

So my question is ...is there any problem like mine exist in your cameras? and if I use my camera for flash it is going to work on the shutter that indicate on the viewfinder(1/60) and not on 1/90 that i set on the lens?

Please if you have time just give your answer and I really appreciate it.

I am planing to go and see the Hasselblad dealer and send this for a service and check-up . specially in this matter.

Regards

Cyril

 

[fotografz]

Hello ,Zthee and blowupster

I own the 203fe camera. and I have two lenses 150mm and 120-60mm Zoom.

By the way,,,This is good chance to put another problem I have in my camera.
In my camera I find some faults in the meter settings. On Manual Some of the shutter settings won't give the right indication. This is to say after 1/250 it is 1/45 and then 1/60 ( this should be according to my setting 1/125 and 1/90)

So When I set the camera on the flash when I set it 1/90 the real synchronisation setting indicate as 1/60. and again when i I go to the lowest setting below 1/8 it indicates 1/10 and only 1second is correct . I think there's some thing wrong and when I originally bought the camera during 2000 i found this problem and went to a dealer and checked with another brand new camera. Then strangely we found the same fault.

So my question is ...is there any problem like mine exist in your cameras? and if I use my camera for flash it is going to work on the shutter that indicate on the viewfinder(1/60) and not on 1/90 that i set on the lens?


Cyril

What do you mean by "that you set on the lens?"

There are no shutter speeds on the F or FE lenses, because there is no central leaf shutter in them.

Do you have an operator's manual for your camera? If not, here is where to download one and take some time to read it ...

http://www.retrevo.com/support/Hasselblad-203FE-Digital-Cameras-manual/id/523dj386/t/2/

-Marc

 

[HasselbLike]

I made a mistake .. and I edit . It is the shutter speed on the body that I set when on camera's MODE ON MANUAL.

 

[blowupster]

Well, if you have FE lenses, the speed are on the body barrel close to the lens. With F lenses you may use flash at 1/90 or longer speed. You have to test without back: Try to fire flash at 1/90 and 1/125 (writtent on the ring). If it fire at 1/125 that mean that your speed ring is just at a false position. In this case change speed arrow position by drawing it on the body because any repration of V body cost more than body value. Elseway sell it on B with disfunktion descriptions and buy a other one. You will se that it will cost allmost nothing as there is allways on on earth that knows ans is happy to repair it in 15 minutes.

 

[zthee]

So my question is ...is there any problem like mine exist in your cameras? and if I use my camera for flash it is going to work on the shutter that indicate on the viewfinder(1/60) and not on 1/90 that i set on the lens?

If I set my 203FE to 1/90 on the body it shows 1/90 on the display, with and without a flash attached.

 

[blowupster]

Yes the same for my 203FE and 2000FC/M. The flash will not change the speed as other bodies does (I wish that the speed set automaticaly to 1/90 in A mode when the flash is loaded to avoid low speed, but this is not the case) . With your 203FE the flash will not fire if the speed is 1/125 or faster. If the flash fire with 1/125 it means that the speed ring is misadjusted.

 

[HasselbLike]

If I set my 203FE to 1/90 on the body it shows 1/90 on the display, with and without a flash attached.

Thanks Zthee , So In my 203 body there's a fault. I think it is Just a wrong indication and there' s nothing wrong with the internal shutter synchronisation on that position. and As Blowupster says if the Flash is working at that position(at 1/60 indication instead 1/90) it is still on the synchronisation Zone and i can use that position as it for flash. THANK YOU VERY MUCH AGAIN AND YOUR REPLY IS VERY VERY HELPFUL FOR ME ZTHEE.

Yes the same for my 203FE and 2000FC/M. The flash will not change the speed as other bodies does (I wish that the speed set automaticaly to 1/90 in A mode when the flash is loaded to avoid low speed, but this is not the case) . With your 203FE the flash will not fire if the speed is 1/125 or faster. If the flash fire with 1/125 it means that the speed ring is misadjusted.

THANKS BLOWUPSER for your time, it was very helpful your answer.

I really understood your first reply. But one thing is I don't want give this away and just get another body. And this camera is somewhat different as it the Special Millennium Limited Edition bought Originally 12years ago still in Mint condition. I think someone could do it but I can't ..as changing his coat or hat.
This is my first and the last love of Hassy you know?

Cheers Guys! and hope you all have a nice year-end festive season. Soon to have a MERRY HAPPY CHRISTMAS AND SEASONS GREETING. And as always good shooting

regards.
Cyril

 

[Fliger747]

A comment was made on hand holding at slow speeds. One technique useable for some subjects was to rest the camera on my knee while kneeling, using the stovepipe finder, and pre releasing before snicking the leaf shutter. Doing aerials with the sports finder I could also pre release.

Cheers: t