500 CM Series questions from a total MF newbie ( actually soon to be user )

[goncaloproenca]

Ok I have a few idiotic, newbie and silly questions that relate to the fact that I never shoot with a MF camera before and I'm about to buy a Hasselblad 500, mainly due to the fact that I can try the medium and learn a bit about it, before upgrading straight to a digital MF path which costs an arm, liver and a leg ( and I only have one of each being a Leica devotee ) ...

So, I read as much as I can but you dont have much "amateur Hasselblad" pages around and sometimes some basic questions are hard to get an answer unless I ask to the users, apologise in advance if this is too basic for this forum :

- DoF preview, does the 500 camera have one ? Or only some specific models ?
- I've read ( although only on one website ) that CF lens have a focal plane shutter, meaning it stays open ( similar to SLR's ) - true on any 500 body ? Or only specific bodies ? Ie, after taking the shot.
- any website with specific information about different type of lens ? I get the idea of C/CT/CF/CFE/CFI lens ( shutter changes, focal lenght, coatings etc ) but I cant find specific information how much better or visually the difference between, lets say a Zeiss C 80mm 2.8 vs Zeiss CF 80mm 2.8. This is something rather easy to do for example, for Leica lenses with a bit of google here and there but I'm finding hard to do with Hassy lens - I'm I looking in the wrong places ?
- 500 CM bodies are limited to a 1/500 speed correct ? Meaning if I want faster than that I have either to increase the aperture of the lens ( so that exposure stays under 1/500 ) or use slower ISO film ( again... ) , correct ? or that is just flash sync and non flash sync can go up to ??
- for faster than 1/500 speed, I need to go to 200 versions of V Hasselblad , right ?
- EL 5xx bodies, that are the motor versions - can they be used without that chunk extra underneath, but putting a rewind crank ? I see many great deals for EL bodies but I found them too big
- lens conversion... I understand that a 80mm MF lens ( 6x6 ) is roughly a 50mm in 35mm terms and due to the circle of confusion, the 2,8 aperture is somewhere around a 1.4 in 35mm terms. Is there a straight conversion ? What is in MF world a 18-21mm ? the 30mm and 40mm Distagons ?
- Chrome vs Black - for every website I see , a chrome 'Blad is always cheaper than the exact same thing in black. Why ?!?! Leica chrome lenses are heavier and usually more rare but that is well documented... in Blad world cant find anything ? a 501 CM with WLF + lens + A12 costs 500 chrome or 650 in black.. and they both say MINT.. and all the dealers I saw..
- Saw some rumors that Chrome lens are out of parts to repair, how true is that ? Some people say BS others say chrome lens cannot be repaired anymore ?
- Seen a lot of comments that people dont like the Kiev88 metered prism but cant understand why ? Seem a good alternative to the PME Blad prisms who ended up costing 10x as much .. apart from the poor construction, what else ? less bright ? difficult to archieve focus ?
- let see if I get this straight - on V camera, its comprised from these parts :
BODY
WLF Finder ( or prism )
A12 MAGAZINE
LENS
correct ?I'm missing someting ? Instead of perhaps going directly to a complete 500CM kit, I might buy a 503CW body only, for the same price and then buy afterwards the rest of the parts - which are the ones listed, correct ?

Last but not least the dumbest of them all :

The WLF is SLR like, ie, it does change with the lens perspective correct ? Or is rangefinder like, the view is the same and we have to change the screens ? I belive since is a view through lens camera, the perspective should change when we swap lenses.


Sorry to all if these questions bother or make you laugh but I'm doing my homework here but need a bit of a push ! Any help appreciated !

 

[polypal]

Welcome here, you have come to the right place and thank you for registering.

From what I read you did a lot of work finding out what Hasselblad V series cameras are all about.

I will answer your questions one at the time as much as possible although some answers may cover more questions.

DOF preview means you have to close the aperture of the lens to the preselected value.
That is done by pushing or shifting a control on the lens body.
Pushing or shifting depends on what model lens you are using.

CF lenses have a setting where the leaf shutter is opened and no longer active.
This setting is used with bodies having a focal plane shutter.
The focal plane shutter can now be used to expose the film.
This position also allows direct view after an exposure, same as the MM cameras you are using now.

Lenses: your selection is nearly correct, good work!
A summary of what was made and what you can expect of Carl Zeiss lenses follows after the answers.

Not the body but the leaf shutter in the lens determinnes the fastest shutter speed.
For Hasselblad V series lenses that is the 1/500 second.
If you want faster shutterspeeds there are two options for camera bodies:
The 2000 series and the later 200 series.
These bodies allow use of lenses without a shutter.
The advantage is they are 1 to 2 stops faster.

The " chunk" under the 5xx cameras is the motor unit.
It can not be removed other than in a repair shop for service purposes.
Depending on your anatomy, big hands help a lot, these cameras can also be used handheld.

If you want to compare aperture for the purpose of DOF you have to look at magnification.
As a rule of thumb for the same DOF lenses usd with 35 mm film are 2 stops faster than lenses used in MF.

Rule of thumb to compare focal legth is 1.6 times the focal length in 35 mm gives the the equivalent in MF.
The correct method is to compare angle of view.

Lenses with chrome finish are older than the ones with a black barrel.
In the end the condition of the lens is much more important.
Most silver lenses do not have T* coating.
Some black lenses do not have T* either.
Read the lens summary to know more about this subject.

Forget about mint.
It belongs to the world of coin collectors and is the most abused expression to describe condition of cameras.

Chrome and the same lenses from the C series in black can still be serviced.
As a matter of fact most full metal C series lenses will probably survive the later CF lenses because they are full metal constructions.
In some cases used parts will be fitted because no new parts are available.
The same goes for early CF lenses, parts supply for those is virtually non exsistent now that Zeiss stopped selling parts.

Please do not use the K word here.
I am allergic for those contraptions sometimes incorrectly named cameras.

A Hasselblad kit consists like you mentioned of a lens, body and a film back.
The finder is part of the body and can be changed for a prism or a prism with light metering.
There is a selection of special finders available from 0° to 90° angles.

Please note not mentioned but quite important is the focusing screen.
Older cameras have a FS that is less clear than the later Acute Matte screens.
Second series Acute Matte are called D type.
Both AM give the same clear image, focsing with D type AM is easier than with non D type.
These screens are expensive, from about 200 to 250 euro each.

You are right perpective changes with the focal length of the lens used.



Difference between C/CF/CFE/CFi
The first generation lenses for the 500 series Hasselblad cameras were called "C" lenses after the name of the shutter : Compur.
The first C lenses were produced in 1956 a year before the 500C camera became available.
Starting in 1971 C lenses received an improved 6 layer coating called T*
All lenses are subcequently T* coated except superachromat versions.

C lenses were superceded by CF lenses in 1982 and later for some focal lengths.
The shutter was replaced by a Prontor one.
The F indicates these lenses can also be used with 200 series bodies that have a focal plane shutter.
To accomodate full functions of these cameras the Prontor shutter is not used when the lens is set to "F"
The lens stays open to allow viewing of the subject immediately after the picture is taken.
Winding the camera is not necessary. This is similar to any 35 mm SLR camera.

The CF series was improved in 1998.
Improved lenses were known as CFi models.
Improvements were: better anti reflection coating, different helicoid, better PC for flash or digital back and a new type mainspring to improve already very good reliability.

Some improved lenses also received data bus contacts for cameras of the 200 series that have built in light metering systems.
These lenses were known as CFE models.
Of course CFE lenses also function on 500 series bodies without the light measuring system.
Technically for 500 series bodies CFE and CFi lenses are the same.

To complicate matters some lenses are available now used as CF, CFE and CFi versions.

The 80 mm started life as a CF lens changed in 1998 into a CFE model and is now available as CFi lens.
Similar things happened to the 120 Makro Planar lens:
The lens started as CF changed over to CFi became a CFE and is now again available as CFi lens.
All CFE versions were dropped because the 200 series cameras were phased out in 2004.

For a user of a 500 series body there is no difference between a CFE or a CFi version.
Keep in mind the CF version is older and does not have the later improvements.
Still the CF is a very good lens.
The helicoid of the later lenses is ergonomically better although not everybody agrees on this.

Carl Zeiss also made an economy version of certain lenses.
These lenses are called CB and were available in four different focal lenghts: 60/80/120/160 mm.
Economy version as in 1700 euro against 1950 euro for the 80 mm lens.
Not a big difference and certainly not big enough to persuade buyers to buy CB lenses.
Production and supply of CB lenses stopped after a couple of years.


source: hasselbladinfo forum


Finally do not forget to take a look at the classified section of the forum.
Chances are you find what you are looking for there.
You will buy from forum users which means you buy from a user who knows his gear.

 

[stever]

- DoF preview, does the 500 camera have one ? Or only some specific models ?

Each lenses has its own DOF preview button.

- I've read ( although only on one website ) that CF lens have a focal plane shutter, meaning it stays open ( similar to SLR's ) - true on any 500 body ? Or only specific bodies ? Ie, after taking the shot.

No, the lenses have the shutters. The 500 series [V Series] do not have focal plane shutters, only leaf shutters on the lenses. The lenses can be used on bodies with focal planes.

- any website with specific information about different type of lens ? I get the idea of C/CT/CF/CFE/CFI lens ( shutter changes, focal lenght, coatings etc ) but I cant find specific information how much better or visually the difference between, lets say a Zeiss C 80mm 2.8 vs Zeiss CF 80mm 2.8. This is something rather easy to do for example, for Leica lenses with a bit of google here and there but I'm finding hard to do with Hassy lens - I'm I looking in the wrong places ?

C lenses have one layer of coating. Some C lenses that have the T* are have multiple layers of coatings. The C lenses have an older type shutter which is becoming harder to repair as the replacement springs are used up.

CF, CFE, and CIF lenses have the newer shutters and are multicoated.

- 500 CM bodies are limited to a 1/500 speed correct ? Meaning if I want faster than that I have either to increase the aperture of the lens ( so that exposure stays under 1/500 ) or use slower ISO film ( again... ) , correct ? or that is just flash sync and non flash sync can go up to ??

The V Series lenses shoot up to 1/500th second. They are synced for strobes up to 1/500th second. The strobe duration is so much shorter than 1/500 second that the Guide Number is the same for all shutter speeds. Unlike focal plane shutters, leaf shutters are not limited by synchronization speeds.

- for faster than 1/500 speed, I need to go to 200 versions of V Hasselblad , right ?

Yes.

- EL 5xx bodies, that are the motor versions - can they be used without that chunk extra underneath, but putting a rewind crank ? I see many great deals for EL bodies but I found them too big

No, the motor is permanently attached.

- lens conversion... I understand that a 80mm MF lens ( 6x6 ) is roughly a 50mm in 35mm terms and due to the circle of confusion, the 2,8 aperture is somewhere around a 1.4 in 35mm terms. Is there a straight conversion ? What is in MF world a 18-21mm ? the 30mm and 40mm Distagons ?

30mm is a fisheye lens, roughly equivalent to a 19mm 35mm lens
38mm or 40mm is roughly 24mm
50mm => 32mm
60mm => 38mm
80mm => 50mm
150mm => 94mm
180mm => 156mm

- Chrome vs Black - for every website I see , a chrome 'Blad is always cheaper than the exact same thing in black. Why ?!?! Leica chrome lenses are heavier and usually more rare but that is well documented... in Blad world cant find anything ? a 501 CM with WLF + lens + A12 costs 500 chrome or 650 in black.. and they both say MINT.. and all the dealers I saw..

Personal preference only.

- Saw some rumors that Chrome lens are out of parts to repair, how true is that ? Some people say BS others say chrome lens cannot be repaired anymore ?

Getting harder to find people to work on. See earlier comment. I only have CF lenses. Most Chrome lenses use Bay 50 filters; most Black lenses use Bay 60 filters. Filters are expensive, you only want to buy one size set.

- Seen a lot of comments that people dont like the Kiev88 metered prism but cant understand why ? Seem a good alternative to the PME Blad prisms who ended up costing 10x as much .. apart from the poor construction, what else ? less bright ? difficult to archieve focus ?

I do not know. I use a PME metering prism with an Acumat D screen.

- let see if I get this straight - on V camera, its comprised from these parts :
BODY
WLF Finder ( or prism )
A12 MAGAZINE
LENS
correct ?I'm missing someting ? Instead of perhaps going directly to a complete 500CM kit, I might buy a 503CW body only, for the same price and then buy afterwards the rest of the parts - which are the ones listed, correct ?

You are right. The parts are interchangeable.

Last but not least the dumbest of them all :

The WLF is SLR like, ie, it does change with the lens perspective correct ? Or is rangefinder like, the view is the same and we have to change the screens ? I belive since is a view through lens camera, the perspective should change when we swap lenses.

The perspective changes with the lenses.

Steve

 

[polypal]

Prontor shutters from CF and later lenses and Compur shutters from C series lenses use the same main spring.
The later improved spring from CFE/CFi lenses can also be used for C series lenses.
Springs are not a problem when it comes to service these lenses.

Now that Zeiss has stopped supplying parts to repair shops the only source for parts is Hasselblad.
Hasselblad has a policy to supply only larger assemblies.
For instance in stead of a rear lens element only a complete lensgroup is available.
That means a repair is no longer economical because the lensgroup costs more than the lens is worth.


Carl Zeiss only made two kinds of lenses: very good ones and even better ones.
Whatever sales talk you hear lenses from the C series will not be less good than later CF lenses.
Except the CF wide angle lenses that were redesigned with floating elements.
These lenses give better IQ than early non FLE lenses.
Despite T* and better antireflection coating inside the lens the differences are very small.